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Here is a question for others that might be in the same situation that I am in. I work for an organization that does not allow me to carry a concealed gun while working. The only problem is that I do a lot of driving and much of my time is spent in the projects and other bad neighborhoods around town. So, here is my question to you; what are some good ways in which I could conceal my gun from being seen by others in the office or when I am in the field. I do not currently have my conceal carry permit but I will soon be getting one, but when thinking about this question put into your mind that I am trying to conceal a K40.
 

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Here's what I think. Do some soul-searching & decide for yourself if you really want to go against your employer's rules. That is your decision alone. If you do, I'd say carry your K40 in a quality IWB holster (I'm partial to Milt Sparks' gear), dress in a way that will minimize or eliminate any chance that your holstered gun will be exposed to view, and never, ever, tell a co-worker that you are carrying.

FWIW, I'm in a similar situation. Due to the hours (graveyard shift) & other factors, I carry my LW Commander at work. The only (emphasize only) person that knows that I carry is my wife.

Hope this helps.
 

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Boy that's a good question.

I am a man of two minds on this issue.

On the one hand, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that when the state says you are licensed to carry but yet you are not allowed to, that's an absurd situation.

Someone who carries illegally isn't really hurting anybody. But it's still illegal. Don't do it.

Now in your case, what you are considering sounds like it may not against the law at all. In this state, no matter what kind of policies they have or what kind of signs they post, the letter of the law says that they can only prohibit you from carrying on the premises. "Premises" means their building, shop, etc. and not the parking lot, sidewalk, or interior of your vehicle.

My question to you is how much do you like your job?

I love my job. I live for it. It's the apex of my existence. I wouldn't be caught dead with a firearm at school because if it's between my career and my life I choose my career.

The fact is if I got caught here, not only would I lose any and all carry privileges forever, I'd lose my career. My certification would be revoked and I could never get it back.

Our democratically elected leaders have decreed I have no say in whether or not I can be armed at work. The people of Texas have declared I shall not carry here, and the people of Texas pay my salary. I will respect their wishes even at the expense of my own personal security.

Is that right? Probably not. Is it what I agreed to when I took the job? Yes.

Now I have debated with myself many times whether or not it would even be safe, but that's another debate.
 

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Well; I have a couple questions…
1} Do you drive a company vehicle?
If yes; do you have take home privileges?
2} If you drive your own vehicle, is anyone likely to ride with you?
3} Do you go into peoples houses/businesses?
4} Has you place of employment ever done any vehicle searches?

The answers here would determine what I would do.
 

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Euclidean, there is a flaw in your argument!

"I love my job. I live for it. It's the apex of my existence. I wouldn't be caught dead with a firearm at school because if it's between my career and my life I choose my career."

Because if you are unarmed and it becomes your life, I think your career will have just ended too! :mad:

On a very serious note, if you are a teacher in the public schools where it is prohibited to CCW and you want to continue CCW'g (legally), perhaps TX allows LEOs to CCW in public schools? If you somehow become one (part-time/volunteer . . . assuming they qualify for an exemption) and qualify to carry there may not be much they can do about it, right?

In my state (MA), signs are meaningless and the only place that the LAW prohibits carrying/possession is on ANY school grounds (K thru colleges here), BUT there is an express exemption for LEOs. "I are one" :wink: and thus CCW anywhere I please in the state.

When I worked for a few companies that prohibited any firearms, I just CCW'd to work (when I felt a need, I didn't do it all the time), locked it in my desk and nobody was ever the wiser. I was at risk for being fired if I was outed, but it was a risk I was willing to take. No legal action could have fallen on me for those decisions. [This was both prior and during my time as a LEO.]
 

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mrshonts: There's a simple solution, do not carry in the workplace. Leave your gun in the car and put it on when you venture into the housing projects or other bad neighborhoods.

I'd wear the K40 on the ankle for easy off and on, or in a bellyband (appendix position) underneath my tucked in button down shirt.
 

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I would really reseach your states laws and then decide. Loss of a job are bad enough, but going to jail too would be even worse. Lots of good holsters and carry options.
 

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LenS said:
Euclidean, there is a flaw in your argument!

"I love my job. I live for it. It's the apex of my existence. I wouldn't be caught dead with a firearm at school because if it's between my career and my life I choose my career."

Because if you are unarmed and it becomes your life, I think your career will have just ended too! :mad:

On a very serious note, if you are a teacher in the public schools where it is prohibited to CCW and you want to continue CCW'g (legally), perhaps TX allows LEOs to CCW in public schools? If you somehow become one (part-time/volunteer . . . assuming they qualify for an exemption) and qualify to carry there may not be much they can do about it, right?
Interesting thought there LenS.

The fact is, I've made my peace with it because the law is never going to change. Firearms are not the crux of my existence, and schools are still incredibly safe places despite what you hear in the news.

Truthfully, were it legal, I think I would feel obligated to try regardless of the expense it might mean. But I also feel obligated to retain the weapon at all times for safety, and when you have people crawling all over you and staring at your waistline and examining the contents of your pockets all day it would be somewhat difficult.

Regardless of how I would resolve that issue, I feel it should be my decision and not someone else's. But that's not how it is.

I have thought about becoming a juvenile probation officer some distant day but I'm not ready to do that just yet. That's a complete career change.

But back on the topic, what is against company policy is not necessarily what is against the law. In my case, it is. It's a felony.
 

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Euclidean, even if it were legal, in your circumstances it would be risky (safety issue). Since you state that the kids use you for a jungle-Jim, it WOULD be found by a kid and that could lead to an accident that none of us would want to see happen.

I do not advise breaking the law. Breaking company rules (which are not related to any laws) is another matter entirely, and one where a personal decision is the best answer.

In one company I worked at (for 13 years) with a VERY strict anti-gun policy, one employee had an FFL and I frequently saw S&W blue boxes on his desk as I walked by his cube! Turns out his manager was a hunter/gun owner and he never got hassled. I did suggest to him one day that it might be wiser to put the boxes against the walkway wall so that they weren't visible to every casual passer-by. :biggrin:
 

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That's the rub there LenS.

On the one hand you have the moral obligation to protect those students from some nutjob coming in there and shooting up the place.

On the other hand you have the moral obligation to save them from themselves. It's a retention nightmare no carry method I've ever seen can solve.

I have entertained the possibility that some of those IWB holsters that use J hooks might allow for adequate retention because if your shirt was tucked in, that keeps you from looking suspicious and they'd have to literally stick their arm down your pants. Also, although I have ruled out pocket, OWB, shoulder, ankle, and any kind of off body carry, I've never had a student put their hands in my very personal space. They do have that much respect.

Very deep cover options could possibly work, especially with a very small gun. I have worn a neck knife for quite some time now. My purpose in that is simply to have a cutting tool that I can carry in such a way as to not freak anyone out.

And these are high schoolers I am talking about here. But they do touch you a lot still.

The problem I have with all this though is that the cover would have to be so deep, I don't know if I could actually produce the thing fast enough to do any good. So it all goes back to the fact I'm probably better off not even begging the question.

The other issue here is how students perceive firearms. You should hear some of the things they tell me.

What I wish was in place was some kind of gun think tank like Gunsite or Thunder Ranch or someone could come up with some ideas on retention and the like to address this situation and see if it's even feasible, but no one is going to do this because no one is going to pay for such research.

But I can't help but suppose when some madman mows down a dozen students with a stolen rifle because they represent the establishment he hates so much and I'm helpless to do anything I'll reap the just rewards of what I've sewn.

As I said, I'm of two minds on this.

So in the end, consider your unique circumstances.
 

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Far be it from me to condone the breaking of any laws, but I'm pretty fond of the old saying "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by six."
 

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Euclidean, wow, a lot has changed in the 40 years since I graduated HS!!

We NEVER touched our teachers, not in any way and not for any reason. We might have shaken hands on the last day of school (if we liked and respected that particular teacher), but that was it.

I like the Israeli way of dealing with the situation, but this would never fly in the US. Their teachers wear Colt .45s, OWB in the classroom and outside during recess. I saw this in "The Old City" of Jerusalem while we walked by a school yard. It is REQUIRED that they carry a gun, after the slaughter of innocents by terrorists.

Sorry to say we aren't advanced enough as a society to see the real problem and real solution!
 

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100% Correct On All Counts

Euclidean said:
Interesting thought there LenS.

The fact is, I've made my peace with it because the law is never going to change. Firearms are not the crux of my existence, and schools are still incredibly safe places despite what you hear in the news.

Truthfully, were it legal, I think I would feel obligated to try regardless of the expense it might mean. But I also feel obligated to retain the weapon at all times for safety, and when you have people crawling all over you and staring at your waistline and examining the contents of your pockets all day it would be somewhat difficult.

Regardless of how I would resolve that issue, I feel it should be my decision and not someone else's. But that's not how it is.

I have thought about becoming a juvenile probation officer some distant day but I'm not ready to do that just yet. That's a complete career change.

But back on the topic, what is against company policy is not necessarily what is against the law. In my case, it is. It's a felony.
I'm an educator in an inner city high school. I have been in the inner city for eight of my sixteen years as a teacher. At no time have I ever felt threatened to the level that I would feel the need to carry a firearm. I have used my Aikido on a couple of occasions. In the event of a situation like the Colombine shooting, there are enough cramped corners and blind spaces so that it'd be pretty easy to take out an untrained and unsuspecting lunatic student. I wouldn't try something like that on somebody trained and experienced. Yes, I would definitley act. I wouldn't wait for some SWAT unit to sit around outside while kids died inside. Plenty of field expedient weapons laying around. One but merely needs to pick one up and modify it for the use at hand.

BTW, I've already been a probation and parole officer and the lies will eat up your soul. Felons lie just to lie. Even when telling the truth would HELP them a lot!
 

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I agree with Captain Crunch

Captain Crunch said:
Here's what I think. Do some soul-searching & decide for yourself if you really want to go against your employer's rules. That is your decision alone. If you do, I'd say carry your K40 in a quality IWB holster (I'm partial to Milt Sparks' gear), dress in a way that will minimize or eliminate any chance that your holstered gun will be exposed to view, and never, ever, tell a co-worker that you are carrying.

FWIW, I'm in a similar situation. Due to the hours (graveyard shift) & other factors, I carry my LW Commander at work. The only (emphasize only) person that knows that I carry is my wife.

Hope this helps.
Well said and Amen. 100%. Especially NEVER EVER tell anybody you work with that you're armed. Never know when one of those nice guys you work with will turn accomplice for the proverbial "inside job."
 

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and when you have people crawling all over you and staring at your waistline and examining the contents of your pockets all day it would be somewhat difficult.
I just can't imagine this happening. When I went to High School, putting hands on a teacher for any reasonwas simply not done. (With the notable exception of a 50 person brawl my Junior year where the Principal got his arm broken).
 

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Discussion Starter #17
F350 said:
Well; I have a couple questions…
1} Do you drive a company vehicle?
If yes; do you have take home privileges?
2} If you drive your own vehicle, is anyone likely to ride with you?
3} Do you go into peoples houses/businesses?
4} Has you place of employment ever done any vehicle searches?

The answers here would determine what I would do.

I forgot to mention a few other facts that slipped my mind. I work as a case manager for mentally I'll adults and I have to travel to their homes everyday. Every now and then I do transport my clients to different appointments. As to answering your questions here; 1. I drive my own vehicle, 2. yes I do transport clients usually on a weekly basis, 3. I travel into their homes, 4. No my place of employment has never done a vehicle search.
Hope this helps out! :sheildsmi
 

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Assaults on Teachers

Fjolnirsson said:
I just can't imagine this happening. When I went to High School, putting hands on a teacher for any reasonwas simply not done. (With the notable exception of a 50 person brawl my Junior year where the Principal got his arm broken).
Happens with nauseating regularity. But as an observation, it only seems to happen to folks who act like grasseating PREY. The touchy feely sheeple Democrat liberals most often get "split" by an angry kid. Never happens to JROTC sergeants or teachers who also happen to be ex military. Wonder what that says?
 

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I would probably carry my gun concealed in my car and a knife, OC and/or other weapon on my person if I liked my job. I cannot carry at work (in a State building) but I do carry in my car and keep my Benchmade on me, which is not a problem. But if there should ever be an incident at work, nighthawk and I have both agreed we would be the first ones down the back stairs to the parking garage and the first ones back up the elevator. We'll stop and get the Capitol Police officer in the lobby on our way back up.
 

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F350 said:
Well; I have a couple questions…
1} Do you drive a company vehicle?
If yes; do you have take home privileges?
2} If you drive your own vehicle, is anyone likely to ride with you?
3} Do you go into peoples houses/businesses?
4} Has you place of employment ever done any vehicle searches?

The answers here would determine what I would do.

F350 your response decribes my job almost to a T


1.yes yes
2.no
3.yes
4.yes



So sure it dixtates how i carry do i like my job that much no i hate it righ now im stuck doing what i transfered out of ... Do i carry sometimes most of the time i run a country route when into the hood ya go though ... :palmier:
 
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