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ZIMMERMAN TRIAL HIGHLIGHTS THAT PROTECTION FROM SELF INCRIMINATION DOES NOT EXTEND TO YOUR CALL TO THE POLICE.

Just keep the thread on:
What to (not) say when you call 911?

and it can stay up. If it morphs into a general Zimmerman trial post it will get locked.
QKS:usflag:

There is something that attorneys are well aware of; what you say in a 911 or any call, to the police, can and will be used against you. The current Zimmerman trail is a good example of this. He is innocent until proven guilty but his call in to report a suspicious person is being manipulated against him. This is a good lesson for all gun owners to keep in mind. If you have to shoot someone you must be careful how you report it. You look suspicious if you do not report it right away and reporting it when you are not in your best mental state can work against you.

So what is a man to do? Read more here: Zimmerman trial highlights that protection from self incrimination does not extend to your call to the police. | The Old Gunhand

Here some info on What to (not) say when you call 911?

The first rule for staying out of jail and/or losing everything you own due to defensive gun use is shut up.

• Be the FIRST to call 911 (so that your name gets written in the "victim" box).
• Describe only the CURRENT STATUS of the situation
• Do not say anything about what YOU did.
• Do not say anything about HOW things got to the current state.
• Do not get caught up in answering their "thirty questions".
• Make the call as short as possible DO NOT succumb to "death by dispatcher".
• Everything you say to a 911 operator can and will be used against you in a court of law.
• You are under no legal obligation to remain in contact with the operator.
• Either hang up or put the phone down as soon as possible.

Here's What To Tell The Dispatcher
• I am at this location......
• My name is......
• I was attacked...
• There is a suspect down please send an officer and medical personal.
• I am wearing <description>• When the police arrive, I'll step back and my gun will be holstered.
• Ask to be identified to police officers as the victim.
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Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Post Shooting Checklist
1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.”
2. Point out pertinent evidence.
3. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.
4. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here"

Instead of going into detail when speaking with responding officers on the scene, briefly explaining what the attacker did to precipitate your self-defense actions plus pointing out evidence that could be lost or overlooked and identifying witnesses to the event.

Next, state that you would like the counsel of an attorney before you give a formal statement, a written statement or even a tape-recorded statement. Once you’ve said that, keeping your mouth shut the best approach.

Don't give law enforcement and the bad guy's lawyer the ammunition they need to turn you from an armed self-defender into a victim of the legal system.

----------------------------------------
Self-Defense Tip: After a Defensive Gun Use, Sleep on It

In Meatloaf’s Paradise by the Dashboard Light, the hormone-crazed singer’s girlfriend won’t let him score a home run until and unless he promises to love her forever. His initial response: “Let me sleep on it. Baby baby let me sleep on it. Let me sleep on it, I’ll give you my answer in the morning.”

When it comes to providing your version of events to the police after a defensive gun use (DGU), same answer. Do NOT submit to a police interview until at least 24 hours later. Say “My life was in danger.” Then shut up, contact your lawyer and put some time between the incident and your official statement or interview. How important is this? Let’s check in with our friends at the Chicago Police Department via an email blast from the Force Science Institute . . .

Late last year the IPRA ( Independent Police Review Authority) asserted that under the city’s contract with the FOP (Fraternal Order of Police) it had the right to compel an involved officer to give an official recorded interview within 2 hours of a shooting, regardless of the officer’s level of stress or sleep deprivation. FOP president Mike Shields characterized this as a “uniquely incorrect position” and pushed the matter to arbitration.

Recently arbitrator Peter Feuille ruled that unless an officer wants to talk sooner the IPRA must wait at least 24 hours after a shooting before its investigators can conduct a detailed interview and that the questioning can occur only between 0600 and 1800. If a shooting occurred at 7 pm, for example, at least 35 hours would then elapse before the interview is required .

FOP attorney Paul Geiger told Force Science News: “This gives the officer a chance to rest through 1 sleep cycle, collect himself, and consult with an attorney during reasonable hours in order to give an accurate account of what happened.

“We are not against an officer talking to the IPRA under Garrity protection. We just want him to be able to give an informed, thoughtful statement. Given how hectic and emotional a shooting situation is, we think the rest period is important.”

Fair’s fair, right? If the cop’s union rep can secure a 24-hour recuperation period for his fraternal brothers and sisters after an Officer Involved Shooting (OIS), your lawyer should do everything in their power to get the same “courtesy” for you, should you experience a You Involved Shooting.

Which raises another key, related point: after a DGU, the police are not your friend. Even outside of the political hellhole of Chicago, where the police keep the right to bear arms to themselves, the cops are a world unto themselves. Even though you pay for it, it’s not your world.

As far as the legal system is concerned, the cops are the good guys. Always. You? You’re a suspect in a shooting.
 

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In Before The Lock
 
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...other than the fact that we don't do Z threads...

...and you've ignored rule #4...

...this is a pretty informative thread...
 

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JD's comments back on June 13th said:
Perhaps since the trial has begun, it's time to review.

Because, political problems with the ramifications aside, this sort of situation is a classic example of the risks of carrying deadly weapons, the risks of defending ourselves, the very likely risks of prosecution and vilification we all face in any such situation. And it's going to be a hallmark example that's well-publicized and basically understood by tens of millions of people, before all is said and done. Lots of benefits to discussion, here, presuming we can all keep the awful race-card crap off the table (which the laywers are sure to dredge up).
 

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Perhaps since the trial has begun, it's time to review.
We should have one thread, and one thread only for Z. If the discussion is on thre trial itslef then It might be OK and civil.
 

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Good points about what you say or don't say to dispatchers... it will be used , for the good or the bad. I know in a couple of non-gun related things, I just told the dispatcher... "I'll talk about all of that to the police officer once he arrives".

One question they have started asking during any call here (yes, they know by your name if you give it that you have a cc license)...... I called on a minor theft to report it....... and they will ask : did this involve any guns and is anyone injured ?
 

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Just using the info. in the post you can never see that spelled out in detail too much . Everyone needs to read and digest it all .
 

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Actually I don't think this is a Zimmerman thread, this is more a "CYA" thread. It is always a good reminder to remember that what you are saying on 911 is being taped and can be used as evidence against you.
That's exactly what this is.

Everyone needs to appreciate the potential ramifications of carrying, of defending, of how prosecutions and vilification can go, the damaging aspects across our entire lives because of such situations.

As the old adage reminds us: every bullet comes with a lawyer attached.

And as I'm fond of saying: while it's important to be right, it can be vitally important to be seen to be in the right. In this case, it seems this is going to be the one hook that might "hang" him.
 

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If I recall correctly, Zimmerman called the police before the shooting, did he not?

I also am skeptical of rehearsed bullet points....bullet points do not coalesce into a silver bullet.

Here's some examples:

Here's What To Tell The Dispatcher
• I am at this location......
• My name is......
• I was attacked... {Witness says you were the attacker - are you lying?}
• There is a suspect down please send an officer and medical personal.{Suspect? Why is this dude using legal terms after a shoot? Is his blood that cold and is he that calculating? Was this planned?}
• I am wearing <description>
• When the police arrive, I'll step back and my gun will be holstered.{So you're not stepping back before they arrive? Are you pressing an attack? Why not holster your gun now? Are you hoping to get another chance to "finish the perp off?"}
• Ask to be identified to police officers as the victim.{Sounds like you are already thinking about a court case? Why must you be identified as the victim? Why would you care? That seems odd...}
---------------------------------------
Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Post Shooting Checklist
1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.” {Again, legal terms}
2. Point out pertinent evidence.{What is pertinent and what is not? If you don't point something out, are you hiding something? Why did you try to lead the police away from the "real" evidence?}
3. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.{You point out witnesses A and B, but not C. C says you didn't have to shoot the guy. Isn't that convenient that you overlooked him?}
4. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here"{Hint: When the Police arrive, you are the suspect.}

These are my thoughts. Mr. Ayoob has a heck of a lot more experience than me, so no offense if you think I'm off the reservation.

But I am quite sure that if I am ever involved in a shoot and live, my mind and heart will be racing, and I'll likely blather, especially when there are skilled cops around who know how to get people to talk.

"Officer, I was afraid for my life, and I want to speak to my attorney."

Better yet: "Officer, I want to speak to my attorney."

I'm willing to spend a post-shoot weekend in jail and go free than a post-shoot month free and then the rest of my life in jail.
 

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If I recall correctly, Zimmerman called the police before the shooting, did he not?

I also am skeptical of rehearsed bullet points....bullet points do not coalesce into a silver bullet.

Here's some examples:

Here's What To Tell The Dispatcher
• I am at this location......
• My name is......
• I was attacked... {Witness says you were the attacker - are you lying?}
• There is a suspect down please send an officer and medical personal.{Suspect? Why is this dude using legal terms after a shoot? Is his blood that cold and is he that calculating? Was this planned?}
• I am wearing <description>
• When the police arrive, I'll step back and my gun will be holstered.{So you're not stepping back before they arrive? Are you pressing an attack? Why not holster your gun now? Are you hoping to get another chance to "finish the perp off?"}
• Ask to be identified to police officers as the victim.{Sounds like you are already thinking about a court case? Why must you be identified as the victim? Why would you care? That seems odd...}
---------------------------------------
Massad Ayoob’s Five-Point Post Shooting Checklist
1. Tell responding officers “I’m the victim; he is the perpetrator.” {Again, legal terms}
2. Point out pertinent evidence.{What is pertinent and what is not? If you don't point something out, are you hiding something? Why did you try to lead the police away from the "real" evidence?}
3. Point out any witnesses who saw what happened.{You point out witnesses A and B, but not C. C says you didn't have to shoot the guy. Isn't that convenient that you overlooked him?}
4. If there is any hint that you are a suspect, say “Officer, you will have my full cooperation after I have counsel here"{Hint: When the Police arrive, you are the suspect.}

These are my thoughts. Mr. Ayoob has a heck of a lot more experience than me, so no offense if you think I'm off the reservation.

But I am quite sure that if I am ever involved in a shoot and live, my mind and heart will be racing, and I'll likely blather, especially when there are skilled cops around who know how to get people to talk.

"Officer, I was afraid for my life, and I want to speak to my attorney."

Better yet: "Officer, I want to speak to my attorney."

I'm willing to spend a post-shoot weekend in jail and go free than a post-shoot month free and then the rest of my life in jail.
These are all good points.

I don't think the items the OP pointed out are in the SD bible, but just a mindset of how to act if put in this position. Or in short, "Don't be your own worst enemy".
 

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These are all good points.

I don't think the items the OP pointed out are in the SD bible, but just a mindset of how to act if put in this position. Or in short, "Don't be your own worst enemy".
OT-- but related. Someone I know was accused of who knows what by an ex-employer. The police asked
him to come in and tell them what was going on. He would have gone and been cooperative as he claimed he
did nothing wrong. He had no concern about the police, especially as his friends are LEOs.

I just lost it when he told me he was going. I yelled at him-- (no offense folks) The Police Are NOT your friend.
Don't go there without first talking to a criminal defense lawyer.

Long story short, he did go talk to the police, with a lawyer at his side. The crazy lady who made the
complaint is probably still fuming that he wasn't arrested and prosecuted.

I'm sure in the end she was viewed as a kook and the matter as a civil dispute.
I'm not at all so sure it would have gone well for him if he had gone there on his own.
Too often there is a very fine line between a potential civil case and a potential criminal case. A loose
tongue in action with brain out of gear can easily change the former to the latter.
 

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I always like the "Be the first to call 911" statement. That's something you may or may not have any control over. There may be a dozen other folks calling before you can dial--if they're not too busy videoing the incident with their phones.

As to the trial, I liked the part where they were questioning the woman who sets up the Neighborhood Watch Programs. She said the function was to "observe and report, not to engage." When asked if Watch members had the right to defend themselves if attacked, she replied "Certainly."
 
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The couple of classes i have taken it was repeated many times not to talk . Before i became a CCP i was so niave . I would have let them search the car or tell them everything . This needs to be drilled in all of us and repeated over and over again. As i believe training should be an ongoing task for all of us . And with this said my Leo friends tell me the same things .
 

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Massad Ayoob told of a case where a guy said, "I finally got one!" on the 911 call after shooting a burglar. He was tried for murder and had to spend a lot of money to eventually get acquitted.
 

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I'd get slapped with a ban in seconds if I posted some of my favorite Goodfellas quotes. :wink:
True! You have to stay away from any Pesci line, but there's good material throughout.

"I know there are women who would have gotten out the minute their boyfriend gave them a gun to hide. But I didn't. I got to admit the truth. It turned me on."
 
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