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Discussion Starter #61
Is this something that happened in the US recently or a fantasy scenario?
It is a hypothetical scenario which falls within the scope of this forum

Real or hypothetical, discussions regarding when you should or should not draw your weapon, shoot or not shoot, attack or retreat is valuable to each of us.
It came to mind because of an incident I heard about while listening to an ATC (Air Traffic Control) recording of a real incident on an airplane.
 

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It is a hypothetical scenario which falls within the scope of this forum



It came to mind because of an incident I heard about while listening to an ATC (Air Traffic Control) recording of a real incident on an airplane.
There are multiple layers of security, not saying that it is effective, but anyone with a holstered pistol on a commercial airline should be authorized to have one there.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
There are multiple layers of security, not saying that it is effective, but anyone with a holstered pistol on a commercial airline should be authorized to have one there.
The thread is not about how well the security is at airports. I am well aware. The scenario is what happens if you do see what can be perceived as a possible threat?

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that an Air Marshall can go bonkers? Or other people that might have credentials to carry on a flight?

I fail to understand why when people post a hypothetical scenario that folks feel the best way to reply is to explain away why such a scenario can not happen. Just about anything can happen in life. Nothing is beyond the realm of possibility.
 

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The thread is not about how well the security is at airports. I am well aware. The scenario is what happens if you do see what can be perceived as a possible threat?

Is it beyond the realm of possibility that an Air Marshall can go bonkers? Or other people that might have credentials to carry on a flight?

I fail to understand why when people post a hypothetical scenario that folks feel the best way to reply is to explain away why such a scenario can not happen. Just about anything can happen in life. Nothing is beyond the realm of possibility.
Then maybe your hypothetical should be a bit more grounded in reality. Why do you think so many people are having fun with it? OK it's your scenario, what is your plan?
 

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Discussion Starter #67
Then maybe your hypothetical should be a bit more grounded in reality. Why do you think so many people are having fun with it? OK it's your scenario, what is your plan?
It is grounded in reality. One person on this thread said they have seen a person showing and an Air Marshal was escorted off of a flight because they were not sure he was an Air Marshall.

And it is a scenario to have fun with. It is a possibility.

Let me ask you this: Do you think it is beyond the realm of possibility that an Air Marshall, for example, would board an airliner with the intention of suicide and deciding to take out as many people that he can? People do that all the time.

What makes this scenario so implausible? Because it has not happened? This scenario can apply to a flight one is doing overseas as well where security can be laxer.

What makes the scenario not plausible? That Air Marshal screening in the US and aircraft safety, in general, is so full proof this could not happen?

ETA: If I did not feel an immediate threat I would let an air waitress know what I saw. The aircrew should know if there is an Air Marshal on board. I would let them handle it. If the person appears to be out of control or the air waitress appears to be in fear of this person then I might act immediately. There would have to be a clear an immediate danger in my mind for this to happen.
 

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It is grounded in reality. One person on this thread said they have seen a person showing and an Air Marshal was escorted off of a flight because they were not sure he was an Air Marshall.

And it is a scenario to have fun with. It is a possibility.

Let me ask you this: Do think it is beyond the realm of possibility that an Air Marshall, for example, would board an airliner with the intention of suicide and deciding to take out as many people that he can? People do that all the time.

What makes this scenario so implausible? Because it has not happened? THis scenario can apply to an a flight one is doing overseas as well where security can be more lax.

What makes the scenario not plausible? That Air Marshal screening in the US and aircraft safety in general is so full proof this could not happen?
I did not say it was not plausible. I said it was not very likely, big difference OK, so you have one guy on one flight and if I remember he was drunk. So out of tens of thousands of flights a day, millions of passengers a day one guy in a decade goes ape. You are gonna need more than a guy (Air marshal) with a holstered gun being loud with the flight crew to take any legal action as a civilian on a commercial airline. There are a multitude of laws and regulations to contend with. your response would be different than say mine as a federal agent flying armed.

Much more likely would be riding on a Greyhound and have a passenger do something.
 

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I did not say it was not plausible. I said it was not very likely, big difference OK, so you have one guy on one flight and if I remember he was drunk. So out of tens of thousands of flights a day, millions of passengers a day one guy in a decade goes ape. You are gonna need more than a guy (Air marshal) with a holstered gun being loud with the flight crew to take any legal action as a civilian on a commercial airline. There are a multitude of laws and regulations to contend with. your response would be different than say mine as a federal agent flying armed.

Much more likely would be riding on a Greyhound and have a passenger do something.
It would certainly have made for a more interesting, less-contentious thread.
 
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Saw a guy the other week open carrying here in PA which I barley ever see, not my preference but he has the right. I just asked him if it was a .45 1911 or other caliber 1911. He was nice and replied its a .45 we had a short conversation and went about our business. Little did he know I had my 9mm Shield AIWB, Out of sight out of mind, the gray man theory.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
I did not say it was not plausible. I said it was not very likely, big difference OK, so you have one guy on one flight and if I remember he was drunk. So out of tens of thousands of flights a day, millions of passengers a day one guy in a decade goes ape. You are gonna need more than a guy (Air marshal) with a holstered gun being loud with the flight crew to take any legal action as a civilian on a commercial airline. There are a multitude of laws and regulations to contend with. your response would be different than say mine as a federal agent flying armed.

Much more likely would be riding on a Greyhound and have a passenger do something.
Well, next time I will make up a scenario that is "safe" to talk about. Maybe something that has been thought about a million times like "what would you do if you hear a sound in the middle of the night in the basement and your alarm system goes off at the same time"

Something that really should generate tons of replies and requires tons of thinking with unique replies LOL.

ETA: I mentioned up thread that I am sure no one on the flights that hit the twin towers would have ever thought that terrorists would do something like that. Maybe if someone had posed that question years before as a scenario, some people might have been thinking differently.
 

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Well, next time I will make up a scenario that is "safe" to talk about. Maybe something that has been thought about a million times like "what would you do if you hear a sound in the middle of the night in the basement and your alarm system goes off at the same time"

Something that really should generate tons of replies and requires tons of thinking with unique replies LOL.

ETA: I mentioned up thread that I am sure no one on the flights that hit the twin towers would have ever thought that terrorists would do something like that. Maybe if someone had posed that question years before as a scenario, some people might have been thinking differently.
As an airline passenger you do not even have nail clippers. What are you gonna do against a guy with a pistol when you are unarmed with a 1' walkway jammed with 30 panicked people between him and you? I do not see what your plan is. The last time someone interjected themselves in an altercation I was having with someone, they went to jail too.

I call BS on your 911 reference. The killers slashed the throats of flight attendants to get peoples attention. A whole different level of oh crab than an Air Marshal being a turd. Air planes had not been used as weapons in recent memory so people took some time to grasp the gravity. Flight 93 was a little different. There was even an ANG F-16 enroute to stop it. Some of us had been thinking and training for these situations, as it happened there were no armed warriors on any of those fights. There was an FBI Agent (not armed by his choice) on one of the planes but like I said warrior.

How about this scenario? Not much grey area to debate. Kinda like most bad situations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/greyhound-beheading-10th-anniversary-1.4760074
 

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As an airline passenger you do not even have nail clippers. What are you gonna do against a guy with a pistol when you are unarmed with a 1' walkway jammed with 30 panicked people between him and you? I do not see what your plan is. The last time someone interjected themselves in an altercation I was having with someone, they went to jail too.

I call BS on your 911 reference. The killers slashed the throats of flight attendants to get peoples attention. A whole different level of oh crab than an Air Marshal being a turd. Air planes had not been used as weapons in recent memory so people took some time to grasp the gravity. Flight 93 was a little different. There was even an ANG F-16 enroute to stop it. Some of us had been thinking and training for these situations, as it happened there were no armed warriors on any of those fights. There was an FBI Agent (not armed by his choice) on one of the planes but like I said warrior.

How about this scenario? Not much grey area to debate. Kinda like most bad situations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/greyhound-beheading-10th-anniversary-1.4760074
:congrats:
 

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He is either,

A. An Air Marshal
B. LEO on a prisoner transport
C. Fed going from here to there

none whom would ever argue w/ the flight crew.

What is the purpose of this zero chance of ever happening question?
 

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BadBob, You mentioned nail clippers. I fly 3-4 times a year, and have NEVER had TSA or anyone else take my nail clippers from my keyring. And I carry an extra in my shaving kit... Which is in my carry on.

They do take the nail clippers at my local courthouse, however.

Also, I have never seen anyone armed on a flight... Air Marshal, LEO, Pilot... No one. Guess that means they CC well.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 

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The pilots, if they are Flight Deck Officers, carry it in a locked case.

Any LEO carrying on a plane is typically introduced to the crew before so they know who they are and that they are carrying. They know what seat they are in.


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