depends if you live in the state of MS...where you can now shoot to kill in order to protect yourself, someone else, or your private property.

 

... in bed ... 2:30am ... see 2 males in their early to mid 20's breaking into your car ...

Step 1: Call police about an active car theft in progress. Be the eyes and ears, on the phone to dispatch, helping to keep the officers safe.
Step 2: See step 1.

That's it. Frankly, at 2:30a and in my street clothes, i hardly want to be in the "target zone" when the dispatched officers arrive. Bad juju. The dice have been rolled. Let it ride. Besides, 2:30a means: I'm groggy, likely not thinking completely straight, that the walls of my house and the darkness are my absolute best protection, that the sound of my shuffling feet at 2:30a will give away any tactical advantage I might have hoped for. The cavalry's on the way, the insurance covers the car, and I'm well protected ... near my family when perps are nearby. Besides, no way in Hell is an insured car worth a life and the attendant risks (ballistic, legal, financial), mine or anyone elses. Best choice, for me.

 

Totally agree. A stereo is not worth risking multiple lives. The stereo can be replaced.

 

sneak around the corner and stay within the darkness, with a pellet rifle and start beaning them on the skull...while calling the PD.
mean and uncalled for..... nah, but breaking into my car is. So I can't shoot'em with lead and gunpowder....

 

I like this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy. However, a pellet wound could be fatal, and I'd hate to break my window by accident.

 

Well considering I sleep in my ride, I would be bustin some heads. At this point it is no longer about whether they are armed or not. I will have no choice but to fight back. This is assuming they have already gained entry. If they are still outside and are trying to gain entry, I would be gabbing my "Bubba Stick" and Blowing the Air horn. It happens to be mounted under the doors and pointed out so they would get all of it point blank. The lights would go on and I would hold that cable down till she was out of air, and considering we sleep with the motor running, it would never run out of air. At this point a ton of POed drivers would come looking to see why the air horn wasn't stopping and why they were so rudely woken up. Now I have an angry mob of truckers knocking at my door. If I am not at a truck stop I would put that "witch (with a 'b') in the wind" and not stop for awhile.

This actually, sorta happened to me.

I stopped in Oklahoma a few years ago, at a dump. I wasn't getting out of the truck for anything and was just too tired to go on. As I was getting ready for bed, (in only underwear) there was a knock on the door. It was a really ugly prostitute, aka "lot lizard". She asked if I wanted some company. I said empaticly "NO".

5 minutes later another knock on the door.... another one... "NO DANG IT"

4 minutes later..... DANG IT, I'm GAY LEAVE ME ALONE.... ( Im not but thought it would deter the lizards...)

30 seconds later a bass voice with knocking...."WANT some company?"

I released the brakes so fast it scared him, as I fled...never even got dressed....

I finally got to sleep when I got to Amarillo in my gym shorts....

From that day on I have slept in some form of clothing.

 

I'm not a lawyer (thank God) but the new castle defense law in MS does not qualify shooting somebody for stealing your stereo. If you are [in] the vehicle and you fear that your life is in imminent danger, it's covered under the law. The law clearly states "occupied vehicle".

It's Senate Bill 2426 and can be reviewed by going to http://www.ls.state.ms.us

If you're behind a locked door and somebody is breaking into your car to get to your stereo, there's not an obvious threat of death or bodily harm to you.

A broken window or stolen stereo ain't worth hard time or a lawsuit. That's why you have insurance.

Confrontation in the middle of the night in the driveway with at least two perps and possibly a lookout or wheelman isn't worth your life.

Call 911 and let the professionals do their job.

 

Check it again, according to the office of the AG (yes I called and asked questions about the bill) if a felony crime is occurring, etc, etc as the ammended law so reads...you have the right (in the law) to use deadly force.

In this situation would I?

Heck no...dial 911, give a description and "be a good witness". I would also call my neighbor and ask them to jot down a description as well. Two witnesses are always better than one, and if my neighbor can read a tag on another car or see something I can't, that is always a plus.


***EDIT***
Obviously it would be hard to justify deadly force in this case over a car theft...unless other details were in place.

Actually it would be pretty much impossible to do so.

 

If you've got a valuable stereo in your vehicle, you probably have a car alarm. (If you don't, shame on you for investing big money on a stereo and then not having an alarm.)

After calling the cops, hit the PANIC button on your alarm to make it screech! And try to write down everything you need to pass on to the cops: vehicle description (color/make/yr.), BG's descriptions, etc.

In no way should you ever consider using your guns to protect anything as replaceable as a stereo, or vehicle, for that matter. Besides, if you could afford to install a valuable stereo, then you could afford to buy insurance that could cover the cost of replacing it.

I know it is easier said than done, as I too, have had stuff stolen from me and yes, I did want to shoot 'em. But thank God, I didn't. It would not have been worth the trouble, money and sleepless nights.

If it is not for defending yourself, your family, or the life of someone else, it is not worth using your guns.

When I was younger, everything I owned was valuable to me. Mostly because I had to work hard, and scrimp as save, to buy anything that I wanted. As I've grown older, I now realize that material things have very little value, as they all can be replaced.

Lives are the only thing you can't get back, and that, is worth fighting for.

Wes.

 

Lives are the only thing you can't get back, and that, is worth fighting for.

Wes.

+ 1

 

I guess you live in one of those nice, quiet places where everything goes as planned and the Law shows up immediately when called. Must be nice.

In the town where I hang my hat, calling the police will produce the same result as calling a Taxi. This is the norm, the good citizens are all used to it, we are all well adapted and I don't forsee any changes in the near future.

You make a decent point, ccw9mm, but it's a point based on fantasy. You'r argument is based upon the "what should happen" scenario, probably a conditioned response of your current environment and upbringing. Good for you.

The real world is harder than your line of sight. Take a look at the title of this site. It wasn't designed to cater to those who have never tasted adversity. It was designed for people like me, those of us who confront problems and find solutions without crying for help, every day.

Before you jump back on your soap-box, I'll Inform you that I and two generations before me are experienced LE.

Afraid of lawsuits? Afraid of litigation? Buy a water gun and take on the wind. I'm sure you'll do fine.

This isn't about carrying a weapon. This isn't about being a superhero. This is about not letting knuckleheads walk all over our sanctity just because they want to. I fought for this country. My father and his father did the same. I'll be dammed if I sit back and allow scum to steal what I have earned.

Call the police? Of course, I'll do that. When the time is right.

 

I guess you live in one of those nice, quiet places where everything goes as planned and the Law shows up immediately when called. Must be nice.

Nope. Same bullshit district as everyone else. However, my insurance agent is excellent. Not worth a life. No rider covers that.

You make a decent point, ccw9mm, but it's a point based on fantasy.

The point is: a car is not worth a life. Fantasy? Okay.

... probably a conditioned response of your current environment and upbringing.

Assumptions are bad. Like my assuming your previous generations of LEO's in the family make one whit of difference as to your ability in a specific situation. How would anyone know but you. In this case, my responses are based on real actions taken against me in similar situations previously. It's based on specific experience. In my case, it's wisdom. Hard earned, as with many.

The real world is indeed a hard place. I choose to be the rock. The help sought can take many forms: it need not be elevated and escalated until it cannot be anything but an armed encounter. For folks not wearing a badge, frankly that's the path to deadly encounters. The path to an early 6-foot Sunday. All for the price of an insurance policy. That's not wisdom. That foolishness.

 

Watch them from the safety of your house until the police arrive.

 

ccw9mm is correct.

 

Obviously, two schools of thought about this issue!

Mississippi's law, which went into effect 07/01/2006 removes the previous requirement of "retreat" before having to use deadly force.

Listed below is a subsection of the new law. It clearly states deadly force can only be used when the defender's life or those around him are in imminent danger of death or bodily harm. As far as automobles are concerned, the defender must be INSIDE the vehicle and of course, feel that his life is in imminent danger.

As far as the vehicle is concerned, the keyword is "occupied".

In my neck of the woods, law enforcement is top notch, a benefit of all the gaming revenue. However, they can't be everywhere at once.

I'd expect someone with a LE background would show a little more restraint and judgement before using deadly force.

If the belief of taking a human life or losing yours over a broken window and a stereo is what drives you, then, that my friend, is a fantasy I'd rather not think about.

I carry to protect my life and those of the people I cherish. And, when the time comes, I have no hesitation to draw and fire to end the threat.

For the rest of you John Waynes...go get 'em! And good luck!

MS Bill 2426: (3) A person who uses defensive force shall be presumed to have reasonably feared imminent death or great bodily harm, or the commission of a felony upon him or another or upon his dwelling, or against a vehicle which he was occupying, or against his business or place of employment or the immediate premises of such business or place of employment, if the person against whom the defensive force was used, was in the process of unlawfully and forcibly entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, occupied vehicle, business, place of employment or the immediate premises thereof or if that person had unlawfully removed or was attempting to unlawfully remove another against the other person's will from that dwelling, occupied vehicle, business, place of employment or the immediate premises thereof and the person who used defensive force knew or had reason to believe that the forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred. This presumption shall not apply if the person against whom defensive force was used has a right to be in or is a lawful resident or owner of the dwelling, vehicle, business, place of employment or the immediate premises thereof or is the lawful resident or owner of the dwelling, vehicle, business, place of employment or the immediate premises thereof or if the person who uses defensive force is engaged in unlawful activity or if the person is a law enforcement officer engaged in the performance of his official duties;

 

I can definitely see Jimmyhat's point of view here. Maybe it's because I'm still young or something, but it just seems wrong to let people destroy your stuff. I'm not saying go out shooting, but I'm not sure I'd just wait in the house for the police to show up. Then again, maybe it's just because I haven't been super impressed with police response in Lexington. 50 years ago, no one would have waited inside and let something like this occur, why is it so different now?

I suspect I'd have to make that decision when/if the situation ever happens.

 

I'll lighten up my rhetoric, because in the end ccw9mm is absolutely correct. Those of you who choose to maintain a safe distance and contact the proper authorities are absolutely correct. I'll not argue against that decision because it is wise, and certainly the right thing to do.

BUT.............That isn't how I choose to react. Right here, right now, the tables get turned. In this very spot where I sit, nobody but me gets to decide what happens to my things. Nobody enters my property without being confronted, and they better have a darn good reason for being here.

Making assumptions, ccw9mm, is inappropriate and I apologize for that. I will not, however, apologize for making the decisions I make and speaking upon those decisions in these forums, which I will probably do more of since this debate has sparked a new fire in me.

Stay safe, call the police. One person will say that, and the next person will say the same thing, and someone after that will probably say the same thing and may even type the same response exactly the same way as three people before them. That's all peachy. But it's damn boring.

 

Stay safe, call the police. That's all peachy. But it's damn boring.

No worries. Agreed, that this isn't for everyone, and certainly isn't for all situations.

JimmyHat: From your profile, it looks like you've got the type of experience that would fully warrant 2:30am actions against property invaders, including: being an anti-terrorism & defensive tactics instructor, having been trained in the U.S. Army and being well-trained in the use of combat arms. Perps at 2 o'clock at 2 o'clock in the morning? No problem. You've got knowledge and skills to which most are never exposed. Kudos on the background. ("That's not a knife. This is a knife ..." -- Crocodile Dundee, ca 1986)

For the record: I'm "just" a citizen. Haven't been in the military and haven't served as an LEO. Have been through a number of security/safety training courses including LFI's Judicious Use of Deadly Force. Like many, I've seen street situations blow out of control right in front of me, including me a few times ... with some damage to innocents (me included). Thus, I train, I go armed, and I keep my eyes wide open. It works, for me. Just not at 2:30am when other options exist. I've also got physical damage to my leg that precludes a lot of overtly physical confrontation, so I've got to keep on-guard against overtly wussy responses to threats.

Got to love combatcarry.com. The different perspectives is where we all get to open our minds. My eyes are opened wider every day I scan these boards. Nice to see such experience and viewpoints.

Cheers.

- Michael

 

In Texas, deadly force is legal to prevent imminent loss of property. I would not wait and watch while individuals robbed my vehicle or my home. Having once prevented the theft of my car by threat of deadly force, I'd not hesitate to use the appropriate level of force to halt a robbery in progress. Police should be called also, but I choose to take personal responsibility for the protection of my domicile.

I don't necessarily advocate that for everyone. It's essential to understand the laws of your state and city of residence and act in accordance with them. It's equally essential to understand your own capabilities and limitations, and to evaluate them in light of the nature of the threat.

All of that said, if you're capable and it's legal, I consider the path of personal direct action to be both prudent and socially responsible.

 

The funny thing about the new mississippi law is that it can be used as fit. If you look at it, it says that deadly force is acceptible if a felonly is taken place. This includes your home, family, property, and place of buisness. The law is designed to be used by whoever has the best lawer, vague to say the least. I personaly will use whatever force nessesary to prevent me from being a victim of ENYTHING.

 

Well here in Washington we can only use deadly force if Our lives or the lives of others are in danger, we cannot use it to protect property when our lives are not threatened.

If it is light enough to see what is going on then it is light enough for my video camera to catch the action, so I would call the police and film the action untill it is over. Then I have a verbal and a visual testimony for the police.

 

If they are outside and I'm inside. I would not be happy about it, but would stay in the house with the lights out, get my daughter and put her in the bedroom with my wife and a .357 and lock the bedroom door. She knows what to do from there. I would be in the living room with the gauge watching and talking to SD on the ph..

I wouldn't go out. Too many variables. They could have an armed lookout waiting for me to step out the door. My little girl needs her daddy, and I aint riskin' her not having one over a stupid car stereo, (that's why I have insurance) when there's a very high chance that I'm safe in the house. If I did step out and engage, I place my family in a situation of unneeded higher risk.

Also, I had aquaintences who did stupid stuff like this when they were kids. They turned out ok as adults and while it's illegal and stupid to do it, I wouldn't want to kill a person for this type of crime. It's a lot different than direct armed robbery, assault or rape, and it aint worth killing over. Something sort of like this did happen once at my house. If anyone cares to hear about it, ask and I'll post.

 

I have a really good camera...might consider taking a few shots with that (from a discreet viewpoint well behind the window, that is...)

Fast ISO and an f/2.8 aperture mean that I might actually get useful pics of their faces.

No way I'm getting in a gunfight over a car or anything I'd leave in it.

AX

 

Sick the dogs on um