[meme]

what\'s your std of \"adequate\" ccw skill?

I draw the line at the ability to toss up a soda can, draw and hit it in the air. A truly good hand can toss up 2 such cans, and score on them both. This is the equivalent of hitting the brain, in fractions of a second, on a moving man, at typical civilian defensive ranges, or hitting the chest at 3x greater distances. The hits are normally made with the can being only a few feet from the muzzle, but where\'s a guy\'s head, when he\'s using a knife or club on you, hmm?

 

[clubsoda22]

Trick shots are not a valid test of combat skills.

Do you do it while drawing from under a cover garment, moving off the line of attack, shouting at your targets and running for cover simultaneously?

Thought not.

 

[Bud White]

Dont feed the troll

 

[clubsoda22]

Sorry, i didn\'t realize this was gunkid until after i posted. New forum, guess he hasn\'t been banned yet.

 

[Hitman]

What Meme is proposing breaks the NRA rule #4 and is very dangerous.
*Know your target and what is beyond.*
A missed round can travel very far and can hit people, houses, etc. Its not recommended and there are plenty of ranges that have been shut down because of dangerous acts like this.

 

[Tangle]

Originally posted by meme
I draw the line at the ability to toss up a soda can, draw and hit it in the air. A truly good hand can toss up 2 such cans, and score on them both. This is the equivalent of hitting the brain, in fractions of a second, on a moving man, at typical civilian defensive ranges, or hitting the chest at 3x greater distances. The hits are normally made with the can being only a few feet from the muzzle, but where\'s a guy\'s head, when he\'s using a knife or club on you, hmm?

BS!

 

[APachon]

Some serious answers would be good on this topic. I would like to see what you all do at your local range to become more proficient with your carry rigs.

~A

 

[jdsumner]

Some of my dedicated \'ccw drills'are:
basic garment sweeps and draws while moving off line, (engagement optional),
drawing and moving to cover (big garbage cans, upright and laid over),
firing from around said cover at diff angles,
and communicating in a command voice.
While live fire is really more fun, most good ccw drills can be performed dry. Alot of nights and evenings, if my wife is working late and the kids are at Grandma\'s, I take a thrice checked \'empty'pistol and my light and work slice the pie drills and cornering. I\'m not kidding myself, I\'m not training to clear a house, just a room or two and a doorway.

Dan

 

[KC135]

Practice=Survival

The only handgun shooting I do that is static is gun/ammo testing.

Everything else is dynamic. Movement to cover while shooting, shooting moving across the targets, shooting to lockback, NY reload and continue.

Do not lock yourself into a two shot drill. If you have multiple targets, one shot to each and repeat as necessary. Use targets with different threat levels..lots of good target available. One guy with knife, another with shotgun, third with handgun.
Different distances, but I keep all inside 15yards, and usually much closer.

Everytime you go to the range, take your shotgun or rifle and do a bit of practice with it too.

To quote an old friend, your objective in a gunfight should be to:

Distract opponents focus
Disrupt His plan
Disable his ability to do harm
Destroy his will


In other words, change his channel

Probably should have started a new thread with this..moderators, feel free to move this post if needed.

 

[clubsoda22]

I try to do dry fire drills every night.

My range session consists of about 250 rounds.

20-40 rounds go to accuracy work

The rest is dynamic.

It involves presentation, shooting on the move, shooting from cover, shooting from retention. Multiple targets. Threat scans, tactical and emergency reloads, Malfunction clearance...

I then practice retention and weapon disarms with my range buddy after every range visit using airsoft.

 

[clubsoda22]

Originally posted by KC135
To quote an old friend, your objective in a gunfight should be to:

Distract opponents focus
Disrupt His plan
Disable his ability to do harm
Destroy his will


In other words, change his channel

Reset the OODA loop. Good advice.

 

[jdsumner]

Now we are getting somewhere.....
Great ideas on some training tactics, guys. Thanks

Dan

 

[Scott]

How about this: Throw 8 clays in the air with one hand, draw your S&W 686 (6 shot of course) and break all 8. :bowdown: I do this all the time so long as the ground isn\'t too soft.

Of course people chuckle when all 8 clay birds break on the ground and I didn\'t fire a shot. Sometimes before I reholster I have to tap a clay with the 686 because it didn\'t break when it hit the ground.

But seriously...

Here\'s a training sim a local officer told me they use to simulate firing under stress.

Sprint 50yds full out. When you hit the line draw and fire at targets 7-10 yds away. No pausing to catch your breath and you should be out of breath if you ran the 50yds right. He said they believe it is the closest thing they can do to simulate the stress reactions of a gunfight.

Near as we can figure the idea is to get your body trying to get oxygen and also do other things. The body is going to give priority to the oxygen and possibly limit what else it wants to do. This should simulate the loss of fine motor skills that happens with an adrenaline dump to your system.

Try it if you can, you may find the results interesting. You can of course add your own variations such as moving targets multiple targets etc. I only know of one place where I could do this now. Most places don\'t have the space or an appropriate range.

 

[Bumper]

Originally posted by Scott
Try it if you can, you may find the results interesting. You can of course add your own variations such as moving targets multiple targets etc. I only know of one place where I could do this now. Most places don\'t have the space or an appropriate range.

That is the problem I have found. There simply are no ranges, near me anyway, that provide a place to practice tactical shooting. Most of mine is dryfire in the house or back yard. I guess I can understand why there are not many around, the liability insurance would probably be out of this world.

 

[clubsoda22]

no ranges around me either. I just wait untill no one is around.

 

[jdsumner]

No running maybe...but talk to the rangemaster about doing a few pushups or jumpjax to simulate physical strain.
Just a suggestion, the indoor range I use is ok w this if the lane either side of me is empty. Of course, the pistol stays on the lane shelf until ready to fire.

Dan

 

[HotGuns]

All the target stuff goes right out the window when you ENGAGE someone with Simunitions.

You see, it seems easy enough, but all of a sudden you are moving to cover, trying to keep your gun on a target that is moving and trying to shoot you first.


Its is an eye opener to say the least. Ive always shot expert on the police qual course but all that proves is that you can hit a target that... 1. can stand still and 2. dosent shoot back.

If your gun gets hung up during the draw or your reload dosent go like it should it seems like it takes WEEKS when the stuff is flying at you and all around you. Not to mention that it hurts enough when you get hit that you just want to quit and curl up in the fetal position and hope that it stops:O.

And when you finally figure it out and are starting to feel like a real badass, the instructor CHARGES you while clearing leather and if you arent faster than he is you are going to get shot. If you freak out you will get shot repeatedly.

What makes it all very real is the fact that the different scenarios always have you second guessing every move. Some scenarios you wont even shoot, others you are required to search and cuff and they always mix it up enough to have you wondering.

Its called Stress Taining and is about as real as it gets. The real beauty of it is since its a training exercise, you get to discuss your mistakes when its over.

It really proves that the typical range training and weapons handling and punching holes in paper is really ill siuted to preparing someone for an engagement.

Just about anyone can hit a stationary target. The big question is, can you do it when someone is tryin to KILL you ?