[Ohio Rusty]

I hope and pray that waves of suicide and car bombs that happened in Iraq today (Wed. 8/19) don't happen here. Unfortunately ....there are so many people in this country that hate us, and at the same time bleed us of our money, milk and honey, that bad things like bombings by extremeist hate groups may be inevitable.

I carry a P3AT, but I've seriously considered getting something bigger or more powerful in case I ever run into a scenario where some terrorist type person decides he wants to hurt innocent americans enmasse. I'm not sure what the chances are of me being caught up in that type of scenario .... maybe slim and none. If it does happen, I've wondered what different scenarios would occur and how I would stop it. It would most likely happen where large groups of adults and children congregate .... Movie theatres, Malls, and a plethora of other soft targets too many to mention.

George Bush said after the twin tower plane bombings that all of us were on the front line to be vigilant and to help prevent this type of thing from happening again. That statement stuck with me ..... that all of us who carry are definitely on the front line to protect our familiy members from harm, and to stop serious physical or bodily harm from happen to us, or families and those around us. I'm not sure if I want to go to a revolver or a small auto for better stopping ability. A large capacity auto give more firepower, but I lose the concealibility issue in the late spring, summer and early fall here in Hot and Humid Ohio.

What kind of shooting practice should you do for an area crowded with people type scenario? Head shots would be almost a must as suicide bombers strap bomb vests around the upper torso. What is the better round that will penetrate deep into the skull that will instantly incapacitate? I know a shot to the maxillary on the front of the face is a police snipers most favorite target, as the bullet severs the brain stem and a hostage holder cannot pull the trigger. What about a terrorist walking thru a mall with a high cap rifle or pistol ??

Alot to think about and how to handle something like this if faced with this type of reality ..... If you run to call the police and the terrorist kills many .... what if you could have stopped him/them first ???

Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[jbs]

What kind of practice....pulling out the phone and dialing 9 1 1. You are not SS, FBI, CIA, etc.
What if your actions pulling out a gun and shooting triggered the supposed terrorist to explode, or if there were more with him that were also loaded.

Protect yourself and loved ones, not the world. That's what police are paid for.

 

[dukalmighty]

Your talking about playing wanna be cop,we got CHL's for personal defense ,not so we could slip on spandex undies and go stand on a street corner trying to pick out suspicious people.IF a suicide bomber wants to take out a buncha people your first clue will probably be a loud explosion.How are you going to defend against that

 

[dukalmighty]

What kind of shooting practice should you do for an area crowded with people type scenario? Head shots would be almost a must as suicide bombers strap bomb vests around the upper torso. What is the better round that will penetrate deep into the skull that will instantly incapacitate? I know a shot to the maxillary on the front of the face is a police snipers most favorite target, as the bullet severs the brain stem and a hostage holder cannot pull the trigger. What about a terrorist walking thru a mall with a high cap rifle or pistol ??

What you should do is join the Army or Marine corp,they will give you all the training you need and lots of food ammo and water,they will also fly you to beautiful Afghanistan where you can protect your family and friends before they get over here.

 

[SCbuckeye12]

You always need to be on guard for suspicious activity. If somebody drops a loaded down vehicle off at the front of the mall and takes off running, I'd be more than a little concerned. However, past notifying the appropriate authorities, being alert and paying attention to detail is the best action.

As far as a terrorist running through the mall with a rifle or pistol...that happens already. Not to be a victim and to protect their family is why most people carry.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

I gather the concensus is if we can stop someone before the kaboom happens, or you are caught in the mall and someone starts shooting people like what happened at the Trolley Mall in Utah or the Westroads Mall in Omaha ... we are not to do anything but run away and call 911???
What about your family still in the mall ?? I realize we are not here to save the world .... none of us can save the world .... and very few of us are cops, or have a cop close at hand when seconds are counting down. But we all live in a little piece of it filled with bad people that want to intentionally hurt us ...
And Dukalmighty ... Army ... been there ...done that ... 1973-1976. Too old and slow now to play armyman .....
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[archer51]

What kind of shooting practice should you do for an area crowded with people type scenario?

Actually there is nothing you can do about a situation like a suicide bomber. You won't even know he's there until the explosion. If your in the immediate blast area you'll probably be dead before you know a bomb went off. Suicide bombers don't announce they are getting ready to detonate themselves, they just do it. Doesn't matter if your carrying a .22 or a .50AE your not going to stop someone who is determined.

 

[Ram Rod]

When will the bombings start here?

Where are you anyway? I'm trying to get bombed here right now................but it aint working. It never does. It's been a long time since I got really bombed.
My apologies for inciting humor here.....I just felt the need.

Q. Where would you shoot a suicide bomber in the midst of a crowd to make sure he doesn't trip the switch?
A. The left eye if he's holding the switch in the right hand. Remember that.

 

[jbs]

If someone starts shooting people in a mall is a dif. scenario, but, I would really hate being one of the people you accidentally shoot as the mob is running through the mall to get away.
If you're far enough to take cover, do it, call 911, observe. If your family is with you, get them to cover. If they are elsewhere in the mall, hopefully they won't be running toward the gunfire. If you have a clear shot with nothing in the way or in back of the target, then take it, but you better be accurate and unload till the BG is down and out.
A bomb...run, cause cover prob wont do you any good and you'll be lucky if your able to run far enough.

 

[mojust]

They Already Have

I don't know if you've read the papers in the last 25 years but there was the Oklahoma City bombing (nice white boys) and several Bubba bombings of everything from abortion clinics to the World's Fair. I'm not mentioning assassinations with small arms. Then there's 9/11....

 

[packinnova]

If someone starts shooting people in a mall is a dif. scenario, but, I would really hate being one of the people you accidentally shoot as the mob is running through the mall to get away.
If you're far enough to take cover, do it, call 911, observe. If your family is with you, get them to cover. If they are elsewhere in the mall, hopefully they won't be running toward the gunfire. If you have a clear shot with nothing in the way or in back of the target, then take it, but you better be accurate and unload till the BG is down and out.
A bomb...run, cause cover prob wont do you any good and you'll be lucky if your able to run far enough.

hrm...Remembering my basic physics here... I'm thinking you're not going to outrun a bomb...SOL. I'm guessing your best bet is to drop to your face on the floor and try to cover the sides of your face and head with your arms as best you can...particularly if there's a few people between you and him/her. I would think the bulk of the blast will be above floor level and would deteriorate as the shockwave plows through the surrounding crowd... But that's just me

 

[cz2075bd]

don't forget the jihadist who shot up the El Al ticket counter at LAX, the jihadist who killed the army recruiter just a few months ago, the jihadists who were foiled trying to attack Fort Dix, the jihadist who wanted to discharge hand grenades in a Rockford, IL shopping mall in December 2006. And the shoe bomber who was stopped by passengers on the plane. I'm not saying these can be stopped with ccw's, and certainly not saying we are leo's or Jack Bauers. Our duty is to protect ourselves and family, call it in, be a good witness, and let LEO's do their job. But I am saying terrorism, even of the small-beans variety, is already here.

A year or two ago my brother and I met for lunch at a sidewalk cafe in Virginia. There was a wrought-iron fence around the cafe perimeter. A scruffy looking guy is pacing around back and forth somewhat suspiciously on the outside of the fence. He is carrying a large heavy duffel bag. He discretely puts the bag down and then starts walking away briskly. My brother and I were alarmed and my brother stands up and says loudly to the guy, "Hey sir, is your bag going to blow up?" The guy turns around, grabs the bag and then scampers off saying nothing. Probably he made an honest mistake but it scared us. But had I been a ccw'er then, if I had tried to play super hero I'd be in a world of deep doodoo, I imagine.

I don't know if you've read the papers in the last 25 years but there was the Oklahoma City bombing (nice white boys) and several Bubba bombings of everything from abortion clinics to the World's Fair. I'm not mentioning assassinations with small arms. Then there's 9/11....

 

[Faitmaker]

Q. Where would you shoot a suicide bomber in the midst of a crowd to make sure he doesn't trip the switch?
A. The left eye if he's holding the switch in the right hand. Remember that.

No thanks. He would have to be 10 yards or closer for my skills to assure a shot like that and even then, good chance I might miss.

I'm not saying that specific shot can't be done with a pistol. I just don't think it would be by me. I can hit the 12" paper target at 25 yards. At 10, I can hit the bullseye mostly (mostly).

Hell if he's that close, I'm screwed anyway. Might as well empty my clip at his cranium. 1 of the 12 should do something positive (I'm hoping).

 

[Holger]

I don't know if you've read the papers in the last 25 years but there was the Oklahoma City bombing (nice white boys) and several Bubba bombings of everything from abortion clinics to the World's Fair. I'm not mentioning assassinations with small arms. Then there's 9/11....

Yeah, the Weathermen were certainly some good conservative Bubba types. ALF and ELF are also nice white boys, although I don't think those are the type of bombing white boys to which you are referring.

The DC Sniper, too. Solid militiaman, that guy.

 

[RETSUPT99]

Getting a larger sidearm is a good idea, for 'personal' protection.

I would not get involved in a terrorist scenario if at all possible. I would want to make an exit to 'stage left' ASAP.

Crowded scenarios are a big problem, that's why they have '911', just be a good witness. If you are directly confronted, then it becomes a new ballgame, but I definitely prefer no involvement.
I'm not a cop, I'm too old for getting into a brawl...I'll take the sidelines and make a full report to the 911 operator.

When the adrenaline is flowing I'd forget about the 'head shot' and think more about the hitting the 'side of the barn' shot...if forced into a situation.

Stay armed...make sure it's not a fair fight:blink:...stay safe!

 

[mojust]

Yeah, the Weathermen were certainly some good conservative Bubba types. ALF and ELF are also nice white boys, although I don't think those are the type of bombing white boys to which you are referring.

The DC Sniper, too. Solid militiaman, that guy.

These guys are all the same. It doesn't matter where they are on the political spectrum; they're bad news.

There is a lot of bad behavior all around and it doesn't serve the law abiding gun owners and their rights.

 

[Bark'n]

Look, don't get me wrong here... We have had the luxury of having no homicide bombers here in the States yet. But if nut jobs start blowing themselves up in large crowds on a somewhat regular basis, you might rethink the premise of regular citizens getting involved.

I would just point out that regular citizens in Israel have routinely stopped homicide bombers successfully by using their own personal carried firearms. They know the police can't be everywhere, and yet they have a pretty good police and military presence on the streets.

I say if that starts happening here in the USA on a somewhat frequent basis, you might see regular people taking it upon them selves to intervene.

I'm just sayin....

 

[grady]

I would just point out that regular citizens in Israel have routinely stopped homicide bombers successfully by using their own personal carried firearms. They know the police can't be everywhere, and yet they have a pretty good police and military presence on the streets.

Exactly. Sometimes calling 911 ain't gonna do jacksquat because there ain't time for the police to respond.

Nothing wrong with thinking ahead and trying to be prepared for a Mumbai-type situation. I'll guess those who were involved in Mumbai wished they'd been more prepared.

To respond to your specific thoughts, yes I'd carry more than a .380. Some people can conceal full-size autos due to their body types. Maybe you can if you alter your attire.

I remember seeing the video of one of the Mumbai gunmen just strolling around out in the open. No headshot would have been necessary for him, just an accurate body shot. In the video I saw, there was little or no danger of hitting innocents because everyone had scattered.

I agree with you: lots of people hate us, they bleed us, and they want to kill us. I believe the chances of you getting caught up in some event is small, but not none.

You recognize the danger even though the odds are small. Then prepare as if you will have the chance to respond. If that day happens, then you will have the choice. Just because you prepare today doesn't mean you will be forced to get involved tomorrow, but if you have practiced today, your odds of success at involvement will be greater.

We never know what circumstances we'll encounter tomorrow. If your default plan is to call 911 and that's it, you are going to be severely handicapped if an event occurs. Let's say a Mumbai-style event occurs, where a group of armed men are taking over a hotel. Let's say you see a lone gunman walking near you, and you have an opportunity to take him out. I think having a mental attitude of "smoke the muther" may increase your chances of survival, and of those around you.

I wouldn't limit myself to the default of 911. In Mumbai, calling the police didn't do squat. Those who got out of the hotel alive did it on their own.

Keep that awareness you have. Keep that desire to do more than run away, as fighting may increase your chances of survival, and may also help those around you. I acknowledge we are not to be the saviour of the general public, but those around you may also include your family at some point. Smoking the muther with a barrage of bullets may be the best chance your family has.

I encourage you to keep your mindset of doing what needs to be done, whether that is running and calling 911, or emptying your gun into some terrorist's head and torso.

We don't know what we will encounter. We may not have the option of turning and running. If we are not prepared to take the fight to them and finish it, we may stand and freeze at just the wrong time, and then watch them kill us as we stand frozen in our tracks.

Prepare to fight. You can always turn and run, but if you haven't prepared to fight, you probably won't.

Get something bigger than your .380, and with more capacity, as you are thinking. Prepare for an encounter that isn't 2' away, for we don't know what hand will be dealt us.

Not everyone can see the benefits of being more prepared than you are now, and for more situations, but don't make preparations based on the unanimous decisions and approvals of others.

You sense the need to be more prepared. Now follow your gut and gitter done, even if you have to stand alone.

There won't be any of us there with you when it all goes bad. It will likely be you, and you alone, fighting to protect your family.

Prepare the arsenal you want to carry for just such a day. And when people tell you that you are a Rambo or a willing victim of a zealous prosecutor, picture you and your family alone in public when armed men start shooting the place up. And follow your gut as you prepare.

Your conscience is telling you now to get more prepared. For those who will tell you a small .380 is all you need... well, they don't live in your body, they don't listen to your conscience, they aren't tasked with protecting your family... they likely don't even know the circumstances in which you live. You alone know all that, and no one else.

When I'm alone with my family, whether it's in our living room or out on the town, I am so glad I followed my conscience concerning how armed I am. Peace. Peace with a clear conscience is what I have during those times. I know I've done what I can to be prepared for the unknown.

Nothing beats the feeling of knowing you've done what was in your power to be prepared. My prior planning doesn't guarantee a victory, but I've sure got a better chance than if I listened to those who say I don't need to be so prepared.

I think you're on the verge of following your conscience. But if you back off and don't follow your gut, you'll never have internal peace.

Might as well arm up now and get it over with. Listen to your conscience. It's there for a reason.

 

[Bark'n]

...You recognize the danger even though the odds are small. Then prepare as if you will have the chance to respond. If that day happens, then you will have the choice. Just because you prepare today doesn't mean you will be forced to get involved tomorrow, but if you have practiced today, your odds of success at involvement will be greater.

Just thought that was worth repeating Grady... Great statement!

 

[kellyII]

Guys let me start by saying this, the bomobings yesterday were massive, believe me, I am stationed just a few miles from where the explosions were and they were BIG and LOUD. We traveled those roads regulary and have had many encounters in that area. We have had some bad bombs detonated right beside us. Its not fun when the SHTF.

As stated in some of the earlier posts, well the suicide bomber is not always the trigger man, alot of times the person is either forced to do this act or just isnt the one detonating the device, they do it that way for a number of reasons. So just bc you took the guy out with a head shot, does not necessarly mean the bomb is not going to goBOOM

I have looked eye to eye with some of the most evil people in the world, and yes they dont care if they kill women, children, men or whoever, just so that americans are the ones dying..

I could go on and on with this, but you may not ever see or notice a terrorist until its too late. Just keep your SA sharp, continue to carry and always be prepared for the unexpected. In todays times, anything is possible. I have 2 months left here and you can bet your bottom dollar when I get home im gonna be looking over my shoulder and keeping my SA sharp.