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Discussion Starter #1
Ok, so I ran across an article that included this picture of a Pennsylvania State Trooper covering an innocent woman's car with his carbine. Am I the only one who's pretty sure his finger is on the trigger?!?!



That is a serious violation of one of the cardinal rules of firearm safety: keep for finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.

I can only assume that this is a pretty serious problem with his department's training program.

Mel
 

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Maybe not.

We dont know the details. Notice that there are two troopers there, which means that there seems to be a problems of sorts.

Just looking at the picture and assuming that she is an "innocent" leads me to beleive that she is not.

Is there more to the story?
 

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How do you know that the 'lady' doesn't have a gun in her lap that only the officers can see?:rolleyes:
 

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As others have said, we don't know the whole story.

I'm not 100% sure his finger is on the trigger, it appears it may be laying on the side of the trigger guard.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
On an M-4 type carbine, the bottom of the trigger guard is flush with the bottom of the magazine well. His finger would have to be about an inch or so higher to be away from the trigger. I'm about 95% sure his finger is on the trigger. Its hard to tell from the angle, but he might be muzzle-sweeping her as well. It also looks like he has his thumb on the safety selector, which means if his finger is on the trigger... Not a good plan in a stressful encounter.

And, depending on your definition of "innocent" perhaps I should have used "not needing to be immediately shot" instead. The other officer in the photo clearly does not see her as an immediate threat.

I'll refrain from posting the article the photo came from. It doesn't give a whole lot of detail on the incident other than to refer the the woman as "a terrified driver".

Either way, very likely safety violation. Perhaps the question to ask would be, "would you consider it a safety issue if you saw an officer approach your wife this way?"

Mel
 

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Blowing the picture up it looks like the finger is on the outside of the trigger guard.
 

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to be honest, the trooper with the Carbine looks to be behind the rear tire and the driver is looking in the mirror.

I think the Trooper with the Carbine is covering his partner, who for whatever reason and as far as I'm concerned in the wrong place. but it's not my problem.

It's probably a picture from last month when the Trooper was shot and killed and these guys are looking for the BG, but that pure conjecture on my part
 

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Blowing the picture up it looks like the finger is on the outside of the trigger guard.
^^^^^YEP^^^^^^

I blew it up also, and it most certainly looks on the outside of the guard, what the shakedown is all about I cound'nt tell you.
It almost appears as if they are giving the vehicle a cursory lookover and the trooper w/rifle is @the moment looking into the backseat;;
JMHO




"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent
 

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I see a few questions,

Notice the officer on the left has his rifle out, but officer on the right has his pistol holstered. I would expect if there was a serious threat, the left officer would have his gun drawn. (It is possible he has a rifle too- can't see)

These officers need some ice cleats on their boots. Notice the slick conditions and hand leaning on the car. Cabelas has some that work great for $15. They make an incredible difference!

Cabela's -- MaxxDry Grip-On™ Ice Cleats

It looks as if they are inspecting something/someone in the back seat. Maybe someone was down there on the floor hiding from a checkpoint?

Isn't it assault to point a firearm at a person without the appropriate justification? I certainly hope the officers had a reason to have a rifle out and pointed in the vehicle.
 

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I see a few questions,

Notice the officer on the left has his rifle out, but officer on the right has his pistol holstered. I would expect if there was a serious threat, the left officer would have his gun drawn. (It is possible he has a rifle too- can't see)

These officers need some ice cleats on their boots. Notice the slick conditions and hand leaning on the car. Cabelas has some that work great for $15. They make an incredible difference!

Cabela's -- MaxxDry Grip-On™ Ice Cleats

It looks as if they are inspecting something/someone in the back seat. Maybe someone was down there on the floor hiding from a checkpoint?

Isn't it assault to point a firearm at a person without the appropriate justification? I certainly hope the officers had a reason to have a rifle out and pointed in the vehicle.
Look closely, the officers right hand is behind the drivers side passengers window and his body and rifle are slightly behind the passenger door as he looks in the passenger window.

Also look at where his feet are, it's not possible for him to be at the drivers window looking at all the body and foot placements.
 

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From the position of the Trooper's right hand, it doesn't appear that the weapon is pointing at the woman but at the rear seat and I can't tell if his finger is actually on the trigger either.
 

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I don't know, I blew it up to 500% in photoshop and it appears his finger is on the trigger, it's certianly not high indexed above the trigger guard.

As to what he's doing there, who knows. He's way to close if he's the cover officer and contact oficers usually dont carry long arms.
 

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I blew it up and lightened the area of his hand. Not much to work with as far as pixels, but here goes:

Given the change in shading on his finger and the close proximity to the magazine, looks to me like he has his finger crooked in front of the trigger guard. It's darn sure not clear enough to call it bad gun handling.

Hoss
 

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I am usually the first one to cry foul when an officer unnecessary risks a person life. But, from this picture, it appears the officer is looking into her back seat area. She seems to be looking at him in her rear view mirror.
 

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Can you post a link to the article?
 

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It's one photo, a millisecond of an unknown situation captured. No one here has any idea what just happened, what is going to happen or what the situations is, so all of the speculation is silly.

FWIW, it looks to me like his finger tip is on the front of the triigger guard and his thumb is on the safety.


Isn't it assault to point a firearm at a person without the appropriate justification? I certainly hope the officers had a reason to have a rifle out and pointed in the vehicle.
Cops draw their weapons for all kinds of reasons and situations, it is not assault, it is officer safety.
 

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I have no idea what the situation here, other than some sort of search, and it definitely seems that the trooper is looking at/covering the back seat, not the driver.

As for his finger position, if that is an AR style rifle (and that's certainly what the front sight indicates to me), there is no front of the trigger guard. The trigger guard on an AR is a horizontal piece of metal going from the top of the frontstrap to the base of the magwell. Either the finger is straight on the frame or it is in the trigger guard.
 

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So we've got an officer NOT with his finger in the trigger guard, NOT covering the woman in the front seat, in a situation we do NOT know anything about beyond the likelihood that the police are serving as cover and contact officers to someone in the back seat of a presumably serious situation.

Where'd he get his training, indeed? Because, absent specific information, I can't find anything particularly wrong with what I see.
 

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Up that close, I would have a handgun with the rifle ready slung over my shoulder. The rifle right next to that car is going to be cumbersome, and if you have to act quickly, it is going to tie up both hands dealing with the recoil and trying to line up accurately. I would rather use the handgun to cover them with, if things go south, you can open up with the handgun while moving to cover, then deploy the rifle.

Bad Tactics and an accident waiting to happen, especially if he is on an unsteady surface with a rifle he is holding one-handed.
 
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