Defensive Carry banner

1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I really like my new LCPII .22 LR.. I will be carrying it here and there, in a rotation that includes a 9 mm, .380, .32 acp, and another .22 LR pocket gun[Beretta 21A] I shoot my .22 as well or better than my other carry guns.
I do not feel undergunned with a good .22 with good ammo.. We are in a quiet peaceful place in a rural area, never in cities or dangerous places, there is virtually no violent crime in my area, and we are retired and never go out at night anymore anyway, and if we do go out at all during the day , my wide and I are always together and we both carry.. Only mentioning all this because 98% of the time, these type of threads degrade in a tirade against the OP for being so stupid as to dare and carry a .22... I just don't want this thread to go there if I can help it.. There are better calibers than .22 for SD, I understand that.

In any case, I have CCI Mini Mags in the gun now. Have several hundred rounds on hand.. Also have a box or two of Stingers, which I was going to use when carrying either .22 mouse gun.
However, I have had some folks tell me that the CCI Velocitor is the better SD round in a small .22..

From the narrative others have related, it seems that through the short barrel the Stingers simply can't develop the velocity they are capable of.. If what I read is correct, the Velocitor is 40 grain, the Stringers are 36 grain, and although on paper the Stinger is "faster", in reality the increased mass of the Velocitor results in substantially more penetration in most ballistics tests, both professional/official and those on YT with guys using wet telephone books.. One guy put it this way- "Weight trumps speed"... Just wondering if thats correct .

Some say the Mini Mags are a good compromise , but buying a box or two of Velocitors strictly for use when I carry a .22 is no problem, even if its only marginally better than the Mini mag.. Would like some opinions from those that know more about .22 LR ballistics and penetration than I do... bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,532 Posts
First, not a hollow point. They likely won’t expand, and if they do...they’ll have penetration issues...and since the .22 is penetration-challenged as it stands, it’s just a lose-lose proposition.

I’d go with the fastest 40gr solid out there that feeds reliably in your pistol.

FWIW, my choice is the Aguila Interceptor.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
19,228 Posts
CCI makes about the most reliable rimfire ammo out there; Remington the worst, in my experience. "Reliability" is primarily a function of primer in the cartridge rim; cartridge dimensions rarely cause unreliability issues except in match-chambered guns.

I agree with Cuda66 - skip the hollow points, especially in a short-barrelled .22 pistol. For reference, check out Ballistics by the Inch for "real world" velocities out of real guns.

Whichever ammo you end up with, starting with a clean gun, I'd run a hundred rounds through it to give you confidence in feeding and function. I'm involved in a few rimfire games at my club, and smallish .22 autos seem to be more sensitive to ammo than other .22 repeaters. It wouldn't be my first choice for defensive purposes, but - better than a police whistle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So I have been reading up on this, and it looks to me like a somewhat slower but heavier [40gr] solid point round is a better SD choice than a faster but lighter [36 gr] hollow point... Would that be consider a valid statement?.. I have seen a few people say that Mini Mag solids would be a reasonable choice.. I have MM hollow points in the LCPII .22 right now, but I just checked my ammo closet, and found that the recent MM order I got were all solid points.. When I ordered, i just saw "Mini mags" and clicked on 'add to cart" and thats what I got.. Never even opened them and had a look until I wrote this thread . Any reason to move on to something else over the round point 40 gr MM i already have?.. bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
CCI makes about the most reliable rimfire ammo out there; Remington the worst, in my experience. "Reliability" is primarily a function of primer in the cartridge rim; cartridge dimensions rarely cause unreliability issues except in match-chambered guns.

I agree with Cuda66 - skip the hollow points, especially in a short-barrelled .22 pistol. For reference, check out Ballistics by the Inch for "real world" velocities out of real guns.

Whichever ammo you end up with, starting with a clean gun, I'd run a hundred rounds through it to give you confidence in feeding and function. I'm involved in a few rimfire games at my club, and smallish .22 autos seem to be more sensitive to ammo than other .22 repeaters. It wouldn't be my first choice for defensive purposes, but - better than a police whistle.
I am lucky in that every single one of the 6 semi auto .22 LR weapons I own seem to love that cheap Golden Bullets bulk remington ammo, and even Thunderbolts have been pretty good..
However, I agree, that CCI is a better quality round.. My .22's when carried are meticulously clean, and I have them at the range regularly to make sure they function properly... So far both my mini 22LR pistols have been very good with any .22 ammo I have used.. bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Checked Ballistics by the Inch, and it was interesting.. the CCI Velocitor was the fastest round, but there was nothing I saw about penetration, and thats kind of the point of this thread..
Would a slower moving solid round nose have more penetration that a hollow point.. Thats what many others have stated, looking for opinions .. probably best to find some online tests in done ballistics gel . bob
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
953 Posts
You are depending on penetration, expansion in a .22 LR 2-3 inch barrel is non existent. Use the fastest fastest 40 grain round you can find. FWIW I have considerable experience shooting varmints with a .22 LR, and other than a brain shot it is dismal.

As an aside, I have never understood why community crime rate stats and travel pattern influence some folks carry choice for self defense. If one needs to use a gun the crime rate is 100% right there right now. Just sayin'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
You are depending on penetration, expansion in a .22 LR 2-3 inch barrel is non existent. Use the fastest fastest 40 grain round you can find. FWIW I have considerable experience shooting varmints with a .22 LR, and other than a brain shot it is dismal.

As an aside, I have never understood why community crime rate stats and travel pattern influence some folks carry choice for self defense. If one needs to use a gun the crime rate is 100% right there right now. Just sayin'.
Did not want to get into that discussion.. I am very comfortable carrying a good .22 with where I am at, and how I live my life.. I am in my own home or in very safe quiet places almost exclusively , and at this point in my life we are never in any other places really, unless a maniac comes into a grocery store on free seniors coffee and donuts tuesdays at Price chopper and starts shooting . Could happen I guess, but I still shoot .22 better than most other calibers, and to me, 10 fast rounds of good HV .22Lr placed well is no joke.

To get on with the actual reason I posted, any ballistic gel tests I could find with short barrels were pretty much in disagreement with the prevailing wisdom..

40 gr Hollow Point CCI Velocitor had the best penetration over all other .22LR rounds from what I saw, Better than Stingers... A few were close, but not many..
CCI Mini Mags 40 gr round nose were about middle of the pack.. The tests were done through 2 inch and 4 inch barrels, and there is a HUGE difference in that 2 inches of steel tubing!....
So, hollow point or no, I am going to buy a single box of Velocitors to have on hand, and yes I will carry them in my .22 carry guns with confidence... thanks to all.... bob
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,117 Posts
@Smitty901

Interesting but you can't compare anything shot from a rifle to the same anything shot from a short barrel handgun. Even the Lucky Gunner video which is the next post on this thread shows better penetration when there is only 2" more barrel involved.

We each carry what we feel is best for us, given our abilities to shoot various guns and calibers. Would I carry a larger round than a .380 if I could? You betcha, and I did for many years.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
6,167 Posts
Bottom line is that from an LCPII-length barrel, it's probably not going to matter a whole lot what ammo you're using. A well-placed shot is going to be effective, a poorly-placed shot is not. I'm not going to "diss" carrying a .22LR for SD. Athough I don't do it anymore, thanks to the superior .380 & 9mm subcompact and micro-compact pistols we have these days, I did it quite a lot, decades ago in a different life. No matter what some will say, it IS better than a sharp stick! :yup:

From what I'm seeing in ballistics tests, it does appear that the Velocitor may have a tiny advantage over most of the competition, but I really think the difference is "lost in the noise". From my personal experience, I have to agree with @gasmitty that CCI/Speer rimfire ammo seems to be the most reliable of the common off-the-shelf stuff. My go-to .22 LR ammo is the Mini-Mag, but I seriously doubt that it would make any difference if you pack Mini-Mags, Stingers, or Velocitors.

JMHO - YMMV
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,532 Posts
So I have been reading up on this, and it looks to me like a somewhat slower but heavier [40gr] solid point round is a better SD choice than a faster but lighter [36 gr] hollow point... Would that be consider a valid statement?.. I have seen a few people say that Mini Mag solids would be a reasonable choice.. I have MM hollow points in the LCPII .22 right now, but I just checked my ammo closet, and found that the recent MM order I got were all solid points.. When I ordered, i just saw "Mini mags" and clicked on 'add to cart" and thats what I got.. Never even opened them and had a look until I wrote this thread . Any reason to move on to something else over the round point 40 gr MM i already have?.. bob
If they run in your gun reliably, they’d do just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Yes I saw that test in print, not on YT, and from a 2 inch barrel the velocitor had the best penetration by a good margin of all rounds tested, despite being the 2nd slowest round tested.. I will pick up a box, and keep them on hand... 13+ inches of penetration through 4 layers of clothing is not bad... bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,592 Posts
I keep a SW MP 22 Compact in a convenient spot loaded with CCI mini mags, 40 gr solids as a just in case gun. Out of a short barrel, I too doubt that it is really going to make any difference anyway, but I know the 40 gr solid functions flawlessly in this particular pistol so thats the reason it’s my 22 defensive round of choice.

Stingers are fine for pest control. But I want a heavy bullet that is going to penetrate reasonably well against a two legged threat. There is also the fact that stingers are a tiny bit longer so they present a problem in feeding properly in the really tiny pistols.

CCI Mini Mag 40 gr solids for the penetration and reliability factors every time in a 22 pistol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,628 Posts
@Smitty901

Interesting but you can't compare anything shot from a rifle to the same anything shot from a short barrel handgun. Even the Lucky Gunner video which is the next post on this thread shows better penetration when there is only 2" more barrel involved.

We each carry what we feel is best for us, given our abilities to shoot various guns and calibers. Would I carry a larger round than a .380 if I could? You betcha, and I did for many years.
I am not for or against a .22lr. Just something most would not think could happen in that video. As for a hand gun at close range you can see similar results. I have killed many larger raccoons and 25 to 50 yards with a simple 22lr revolver. Even a few coyote over the years.
I know a man that was shot with .22lr 7 times and took the gun away then beat that shooter very badly. My father. Turn that around more than one bear has been killed with a .22. Many Deer poachers use .22 .
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
953 Posts
Did not want to get into that discussion..I picked up on that right away. But hoped I could stimulate some thought. My Dad always said a closed mind can only be opened from within. Looks like I should have heeded that . I am very comfortable carrying a good .22 with where I am at, and how I live my life.. I am in my own home or in very safe quiet places almost exclusively , and at this point in my life we are never in any other places really, unless a maniac comes into a grocery store on free seniors coffee and donuts tuesdays at Price chopper and starts shooting . Could happen I guess, but I still shoot .22 better than most other calibers, and to me, 10 fast rounds of good HV .22Lr placed well is no joke.

To get on with the actual reason I posted, any ballistic gel tests I could find with short barrels were pretty much in disagreement with the prevailing wisdom..

40 gr Hollow Point CCI Velocitor had the best penetration over all other .22LR rounds from what I saw, Better than Stingers... A few were close, but not many..
CCI Mini Mags 40 gr round nose were about middle of the pack.. The tests were done through 2 inch and 4 inch barrels, and there is a HUGE difference in that 2 inches of steel tubing!....
So, hollow point or no, I am going to buy a single box of Velocitors to have on hand, and yes I will carry them in my .22 carry guns with confidence... thanks to all.... bob
At least my conscious is clear. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
982 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
At least my conscious is clear. Good luck.
You needn't have commented at all.. I get it, the .22LR is not considered a serious SD round.. Understood.. however, in the original post I said I understood that, did not want to go there, and that the times I do carry a .22 I am 100% comfortable with it.. I just wanted opinions on the ammo choices , NOT a lecture as to why I should not even be considering endangering my life by having it in my pocket.. Sorry if I don't feel I need to have .357 on me when I am at my 7 year old grandsons soccer games, while my wife is always alongside me and is carrying a .380 Sig with Hornady SD ..
I wanted a discussion on .22LR ballistics, penetration through short barrels, etc, thats all... bob
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top