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Discussion Starter #1
So a quick forum search didn't provide an answer.

Which form or style of martial art lends itself best to gunfighting. I've seen Krav Maga has some pretty brutal disarming techniques, but I'm talking about a kind of fighting that treats the gun like Kendo treats the sword.

What do you guys and gals know, or think?
 

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I'm no expert, I'm just a lowly blue belt in Okinawan Kempo, but it was my understanding that the basis of most martial arts were formed before firearms were prevelant, which is one reason why Kendo is an art for the sword. In my humble opinion you're better off looking for an instructor who is firearm friendly and who can tailor an art to you.

For example I spent much of Saturday afternoon giving an impromptu lesson in basic firearms to the rest of my martial arts class. (When I was supposed to go to Iraq I had practiced disarms with me sensei, and I had recently mentioned that I wanted to include them into class. So he did.) Afterwards we practiced disarms.

Point is we were taking traditional tecniques and applying them to modern day situations. Like I said before, look for a sensei who will tailor a program for you, even if it means sending you into a different art.

P.S.- Being pistol whipped, even lightly with just a red gun really really hurts.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I guess that's what I'm asking. Which discipline best adapts itself to the use of guns? If a style has heavy emphasis on kicking, then that's probably not the one, but a style that focuses on straight punches might be adapted.

Didn't Steven Segal adapt Akido training to pistols. It seems I heard he was a pretty good shooter.
 

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Segal is supposed to be a pretty good shoot not sure if he adapted Akido style or not to help him ..

Only Art i pratice is the Art of Big boom so im not much help on this topic ..
 

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My martial art does not extend much beyond pictures of armor!!!

Seriously - I have probably only two moves that I learned way back and which would hopefully still come naturally - beyond that I'll hope my sit' awareness keeps me out of trouble.

I no longer train for this stuff - too much age impairment!!
 

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There was an article in Combat Handguns(?) a few years ago profiling Seagal-Sensei and his firearms training, techniques etc. IIRC, his shooting stance is basically the Ai-hanmi stance of Aikido/Ken-jutsu. Massad Ayoob has incorporated some martial arts techniques into his Stressfire system as well. His book "Stressfire" goes into detail about the specific techniques he uses and the arts he adapted them from. The article went into depth about his preference for 1911 pistols made by Terry Tussey using Caspian parts.

(edit) After typing all this, I found the article HERE on Terry's website! :rolleyes:
 

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Don't forget that training in the use of firearms is a Martial Art itself.
 

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On The Floor

One stat I heard a number of years ago was that 90% of all fights (skin on skin) end up on the ground. Now, like most politicians facts that 90% is more than off by a few points I'm sure. The fact remains that if you are confronted in a close quarters assult the range is usually within 3 feet. Most punks won't announce they are going to attack you, but would much rather sucker punch you.
So it is that reason that I believe that grappling/judo to be an effective way to train. If you ever watch the UFC it is all about power and submission holds. Also a true understanding of where your opponent's hands are at all times.

Put yourself in a senario in which you are at a (insert location here) and someone jumps you from the back and has you on your stomach on the floor. What do you do? Can you access your weapon? Can HE access your weapon? Knowing how to manipulate someone's apendeges effectivly comes in handy. Picture of what I'm talking about enclosed.

View attachment 1307

For what it's worth,
 

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That's MMA (Mixed Martial Arts). A mixture of striking skills and grappling/submission. An example would be mixing the punching, kicking, kneeing and elbow strikes of Muay Thai and the grappling and submission holds of BJJ (Brazilian Ju Jitsu). It's practical, adaptable and teaches standing and ground fighting skills. Find a place that teaches a both. Start with one, cross train in another and start blending them together. Just my .02
 

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I studied ryu jujitsu as a teen, now I'm old, fat, and slow. My 10 year old daugher is an orange belt in taekwondo. I'd agree with ChefRski, jujitsu, judo, something for close-in work would benifit gunfighting more than the giant spinning tornado kicks my daugher does :)

If you're far enough away to launch a flying kick, you'd be better off shooting them. If they're close enough to grab you, some grappling technique might give you the space to employ the weapon.

Weapon retention techniques might be applied to firearms, as well.
 

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Krav Maga was designed with the intergration of firearms in mind, and from what I've seen is a very effective defensive art.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I think some may have misunderstood my question, and that's understandable. What I was asking, was if anyone knew of a form of martial art that actually incorporates shooting. Not disarming, but aiming and shooting the gun.

Refering to my first post, Kendo is the martial art of sword fighting. It teaches how to strike and defend with a sword.

That's kind of what I'm looking for, except with a pistol.

I bet Tai Chi might be useful, from what little I know of it. Are there any Tai Chi pratitioners on here?
 

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WorldPax said:
I think some may have misunderstood my question, and that's understandable. What I was asking, was if anyone knew of a form of martial art that actually incorporates shooting. Not disarming, but aiming and shooting the gun.

Refering to my first post, Kendo is the martial art of sword fighting. It teaches how to strike and defend with a sword.

That's kind of what I'm looking for, except with a pistol.

I bet Tai Chi might be useful, from what little I know of it. Are there any Tai Chi pratitioners on here?
I understood your question but didn't post cause my response would have been NOPE!

I take Tenshen Aikido and in my dojo we also have Tai Chi and I have taken it several times but not like Aikido. Tai Chi would I think be as close to what you are talking about but not specific for sure and it is not meant to be either.

http://www.threeriversaikido.com/newsite/taichi.php Tai Chi
http://www.threeriversaikido.com/newsite/index.php Aikido
http://www.defensivetechnologies.com/ Defensive Tactic Technologies

I have taken all of these and while not specific to what you are talking about they have been instrumental in my ability to even do everyday things much better, much more controlled, much quieter, much clearer and just plain better in just about all area's of life I have noticed this.

I have also taken Kendo a few times but I couldn't get into it and going up against the guys in my dojo that take it and teach it is not very fun when you are the guy getting beat on all class at about a 10 to 1 ratio in hits landed.

Not sure how and if this helped you but I think anything that you take that relies on body control and movements will help you in what you are looking for. I know for a fact that it has helped me in just about every part of my life.

Ti.
 

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Really curious as to how/why you would incorporate Tai Chi into shooting. I've never practiced TC but I can't imagine the application on the range much less in a gunfight.
In my mind keeping it simple and effective is the way to go. IMHO being able to defend yourself and keep your weapon in your own hands is more important.
I'm probably not on target with your request for MA info but if I look at incorporating an MA into shooting I look first at how it gives me an edge in situations when I may not be able to pull the trigger.
 

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WorldPax said:
I think some may have misunderstood my question, and that's understandable. What I was asking, was if anyone knew of a form of martial art that actually incorporates shooting. Not disarming, but aiming and shooting the gun.

Refering to my first post, Kendo is the martial art of sword fighting. It teaches how to strike and defend with a sword.

That's kind of what I'm looking for, except with a pistol.

I bet Tai Chi might be useful, from what little I know of it. Are there any Tai Chi pratitioners on here?
Pax, combat shooting is a martial art unto itself. Weaver, isosolese, CAR, etc., are all valid handling postures, in given scenarios. Assuming the safest, most stable "platform" in a developing situation is the "art". Martial arts, per se, do not apply, but they are extremely important in "the toolbox". (Not every violent situation you may encounter will require Lethal Force.) As the forementioned article states, there's more form than combat in most MA training today. Try a couple or three styles, and keep what works well in your "Tree of Force".
 

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Life is a Martial Art

Rob72 said:
Pax, combat shooting is a martial art unto itself. Weaver, isosolese, CAR, etc., are all valid handling postures, in given scenarios. Assuming the safest, most stable "platform" in a developing situation is the "art". Martial arts, per se, do not apply, but they are extremely important in "the toolbox". (Not every violent situation you may encounter will require Lethal Force.) As the forementioned article states, there's more form than combat in most MA training today. Try a couple or three styles, and keep what works well in your "Tree of Force".
I agree 100% that combat shooting is a martial art unto itself. I also agree that unarmed combat should be part of the toolbox as you put it. I have been a practitioner of Aikido for a number of years. Well, off and on since I was in my 20's. I highly recommend this form since it is first off, devastatingly effective and requires no (ZERO) strength and doesn't require any sort of fist strike or kicks. This helps minimize lawsuits resulting from confrontations. lol Aikido is also a "sword art" although it utilizes the "Jo" stick and the Bokken which can easily stand in for the pool cue or walking stick. But there is an excellent book to be read on this generalized subject, IIRC it was written by a USAF Major titled Living the Martial Way.
 

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Rgr5280 said:
Really curious as to how/why you would incorporate Tai Chi into shooting. I've never practiced TC but I can't imagine the application on the range much less in a gunfight.
In my mind keeping it simple and effective is the way to go. IMHO being able to defend yourself and keep your weapon in your own hands is more important.
I'm probably not on target with your request for MA info but if I look at incorporating an MA into shooting I look first at how it gives me an edge in situations when I may not be able to pull the trigger.
Basically I don't think it would incorporate into shooting and I never said Tai Chi did. I did say it would be close in relation that Tai Chi relates specific muscle movements and incorporates muscle memory and mind control as well as Aikido and DTT. I said you can adapt this into shooting to aid in control and movement, keeping calm when a situation and tensions arise.

People tend to make mistakes when a real life defense scenario is facing them and I have no doubt that all of the above that I mentioned helps in many ways to keep things in prospective and allow things to come naturally.

I don't take Aikido, DTT and sometimes Tai Chi for CCW purposes I take it to keep in shape, keep my mind sharp and to have as another tool as you said if pulling the trigger is not an option.

Things that might not seem to be related in life are very related in many ways that we don't think about. Conditioning your mind and body is very related to CC even if you never pick up a gun in class to use or practice with.

You wouldn't believe how simple things become when you have trained like this, so to me this is keeping it simple. :yup:

Ti.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Kind of like Ti alluded to. I know that MA teaches controlled breathing, mental states, and muscle memory. All things that can make you a more consistent shooter. I do not doubt that any martial art at it's base is going to help the average shooter to become better. I was just wondering if any certain form was more easily adaptable.

As for Tai Chi, my understanding is that all those nice slow peaceful looking motions may look pretty, but if you speed them up it gets all Kung Fu fighting real quick. I may be wrong.
 
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