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Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
Again, your refusal to accept facts presented does not invalidate those facts.

But then you linked to an article to validate your argument in this thread:

https://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...ear-masks.html

that is one month old. Pot... meet kettle.
Two days old.
I stand corrected on the date of the article. Thank you.

Be that as it may your refusal to accept the article I posted.. https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/27/more-people-died-from-suicide-than-coronavirus-in-tennessee-this-week/... because it is 2 months old doesn't invalidate the facts contained therein.
 

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And why are so many denigrating those that protest against such suppression? The goal was to prevent hospitals from being overrun. We achieved that goal, but now the goalposts have moved to "defeat the virus."

Which means now that in many states, the lock downs are preventing people from:

1) traveling
2) working
3) freely associating with others
4) attending worship services of their religion
5) purchasing many items

Those are just a few. And many don't even seem alarmed that for some states this may go on indefinitely. "It's to save lives."

Where have we heard that before?

We now have:

Common sense travel controls to save lives.
Common sense employment controls to save lives.
Common sense first amendment control to save lives.
Common sense religion control to save lives.
Common sense purchase controls to save lives.

All for an indefinite period of time. And yet so many seem fine to surrender their liberties for some temporary safety.

It is truly unnerving and disheartening.
To answer your title question....because many are concerned with the health of OTHERS more than their own "rights".
This is just a new version of the selfish/self centered issue which afflicts many right wingers.
 

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Discussion Starter #265
To answer your title question....because many are concerned with the health of OTHERS more than their own "rights".
This is just a new version of the selfish/self centered issue which afflicts many right wingers.
You responded as much in an earlier post, but here you made more explicit the false dilemma and buttressed with an ad hominem attack.

Sorry, I don't play the game any more.
 

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To answer your title question....because many are concerned with the health of OTHERS more than their own "rights".
This is just a new version of the selfish/self centered issue which afflicts many right wingers.
So, how many lives must be saved in order for us to give up our freedoms? I'm not saying we didn't need to institute extraordinary means in order to address this current pandemic. But, there is a legitimate question to determine what is the appropriate cost. There are about 60K deaths each year to the seasonal flu. We could probably reduce that considerably if we instituted the same restrictions during the flu season every year, but we don't. Should we shut down the economy for 5-6 months every year to save some of those lives? Would not doing that be 'selfish'? Are those who die from the flu less valuable than those who die from Covid-19?

If we knew that opening the economy would only result in one additional death than if we did not, should we still keep people out of work and businesses closed? If the answer is yes, then there is no limit to what the gov't can/should do to "protect" us: ban motorcycles, 20mph speed limits, no skydiving, etc. Ok, what if it was 1,000 or 10,000? Of course we can't know that number.

Again, I'm not saying there wasn't a need for restrictions or that there isn't a need for further restrictions - but there are legitimate questions as to how do we determine when restrictions should be implemented and to what degree - and when they should be lifted. Very few politicians are going to have the backbone to make that decision because any death that occurs thereafter will be blamed on them (even if that person would have died anyway).
 

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You responded as much in an earlier post, but here you made more explicit the false dilemma and buttressed with an ad hominem attack.

Sorry, I don't play the game any more.
Ad hominem yup!
False dilemma???????
 

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Have met many but my point is that selfishness is an underlying value of conservatism.
Correction; of The Republican Party
Where did you get that nugget of knowledge from?
Time and again surveys show that when it comes to charitable donations Conservatives/Republicans kick liberal/ democrat donations butt every year.
We give to charities with our own money whereas you liberals like using (OPM) Other people’s money, never your own.
The underlying value of conservatism is freedom and personal responsibility, and giving of our own finances and talents to help others by helping them to help themselves. Not keeping them on “The Plantation “
I am sorry you drank the kool aid in school.
 

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Discussion Starter #274
Where did you get that nugget of knowledge from?
Time and again surveys show that when it comes to charitable donations Conservatives/Republicans kick liberal/ democrat donations butt every year.
We give to charities with our own money whereas you liberals like using (OPM) Other people’s money, never your own.
The underlying value of conservatism is freedom and personal responsibility, and giving of our own finances and talents to help others by helping them to help themselves. Not keeping them on “The Plantation “
I am sorry you drank the kool aid in school.
He's just trolling. Don't feed the troll :)
 

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Originally Posted by The Fish View Post
To answer your title question....because many are concerned with the health of OTHERS more than their own "rights".
This is just a new version of the selfish/self centered issue which afflicts many right wingers.
You, as an individual, have the freedom to give up your rights if it makes you feel all noble and stuff to think you are selflessly doing it out of concern for others.

I, as an individual, have the freedom to suggest a place for you to go if you demand I do as you do and if you try to shame me because I don't.

The real truth is those who demand other people do as they are told, or try to shame other people into doing as they are told, are the selfish/self centered wannabe dictators trying to hide their desire to tell everyone what to do behind faux altruism.
 

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Tough crowd.
 

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The latest this morning was Dershowitz saying that Constitutionally the government has the right to vaccinate us, or force us into quarantine.

If that day comes, we may as well just give up.
 

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@LimaCharlie...is it true that your Gov announced that people may not go from a "closed" area to an "open" area and vice versa?
Yes, but from feedback from citizens in our closed county, the next county over has bars open with wall to wall people from closed counties.
 
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