[ethorman]

Background:

I am a SSG in the Army, I have served my country fighting for the past 7+ years. I have done 3 tours to Iraq and yet I still can not carry concealed on a military installation? I am licensed in the state of North Dakota, with recipirocity with OK (and soon to be Oklahoma). I am just wondering why/how they can take away our 2nd ammendment rights when we are fighting for the country.

And a better question is how could I go about bringing this up to someone who can change it. I understand that its is a "Post" policy of no CCW on post, but the military says that you can not carry in uniform.

I personally feel that because I am wearing a uniform, at work or around town, that I am more of a target than when I am civilian clothes. Granted the town is military friendly but there are some groups/gangs that do not like us, but if a solider is legally licensed to carry then I think that he should be able to exercise that right, especially if he is military.

Hope this makes sense, and does anyone else feel the same way?

 

[WHEC724]

I completely agree with you, ethorman. It is an outrage.

'Quick story: Back in '92, I turned down a re-enlistment contract with guaranteed OCS/Flight school. The reason I turned it down was because I refused to put myself in a position where I would be receiving direction from a commander-in-chief (slick Willy) who didn't even know how to render a proper salute, much less have ever served a moment in the military.

My point is that we as a people, have elected a governing body that prefers to focus on politically correct dialect (such as 'enemy combatant vs. terrorist'), than risk offending foreign nations by addressing a clear and present danger within our own borders.

Until we elect officials that faithfully represent the well-documented intentions of our founding fathers, we will continue to suffer this and many other outrages. For now, what we have is exactly what the majority of the voters in our nation have asked for.

Okay, I'm taking a deep breath now. Rant off.

Thank you for your service. Stay safe!

 

[Sunday]

I agree this is absurd, you should be able to carry. I believe the Clinton administration is responsible for this nonsense back in the 1990s, based upon what I read on another thread discussing the Fort Hood incident.

 

[black knife]

If you want to wear a uniform and carry a gun...then get out of the Army and become a Cop....if you are worried about being jumped out in town don't wear your uniform....its that simple...you joined the military and you are property of the U.S. goverment...As my Sgt. would say.....you signed the contract.

 

[ethorman]

Yes I agree with you...I did sign the contract and I am property of the United States Goverment, and I accept and follow all rules and orders that are given to me. I want to be able to wear my military uniform and exercise my second amendment right as a united states citizen because I am that as well, call me crazy, I understand the rules that are set forth, my question is how do we/or bring it up to someone that can fix it?

I know that arming all of our soldiers is not the right answer, because the bad will probably out weigh the good, but if someone is licensed in that state that he is staioned in to carry, and has completed all the necessary training, then why not....what will it hurt?

 

[black knife]

Yes I agree with you...I did sign the contract and I am property of the United States Goverment, and I accept and follow all rules and orders that are given to me. I want to be able to wear my military uniform and exercise my second amendment right as a united states citizen because I am that as well, call me crazy, I understand the rules that are set forth, my question is how do we/or bring it up to someone that can fix it?

I know that arming all of our soldiers is not the right answer, because the bad will probably out weigh the good, but if someone is licensed in that state that he is staioned in to carry, and has completed all the necessary training, then why not....what will it hurt?

How many bar fights have you seen or been involved in?.....I mean I have been involved in straight out brawls, company verus company.....I have even seen a guy get his half his cheek get bitten off......could you imagine a bar fight where a couple of knuckle heads had guns on them...man it would be a blood bath ...thats why you guy don't carry guns on or off base.....and you never will...just get used to it or get out of the Army

 

[ethorman]

Well thank you for your opinion. :bier:

 

[NC Bullseye]

If you truly want to change it then think of getting out of the mil and getting into public service. Become one of the "Decision Makers". I always look at a candidates past mil experience. If they served and especially if it was in the enlisted ranks it's a big plus. In today's politics you have to work the issues from the inside.

If you do this and get to a national level remember what got you started.

I always have a vote to cast for getting things straightened out.

 

[CenCal]

1st... Thank You for your military service.

2nd... I agree, going into public service (politics) is probably the best way to get your goals accomplished.

 

[sleepyhead]

could you imagine a bar fight where a couple of knuckle heads had guns on them...man it would be a blood bath ...thats why you guy don't carry guns on or off base.....and you never will...just get used to it or get out of the Army

You don't have much faith in our soldiers!

The argument you are using here sounds a lot like the arguments the anti-gunners use to fight concealed carry: People can't control their anger! It will be a bloodbath!

Our soldiers generally have more restraint and self discipline than civilians. I served for a few years, spent quite a bit of time at bars with other soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen. Never once did I see a brawl break out, although there were some heated discussions :argue:

I would think that soldiers, many of whom are more skilled and experienced with firearms than most civilians, would be less likely to cause trouble carrying concealed than most of us on this board!

How many people do you know that carry when going to a bar, or carry while drinking? Do you hold our soldiers in such low regard that you think they would go out bar hopping and drinking while carrying?

I find it embarrassing and aggravating that the people defending and dying for our liberties are denied those same liberties.

 

[JerryM]

I agree with black knife. I think it would be a terrible idea, and having had 28 years of military service, I do know a thing or two about soldiers, and bases.
Of course there others with equal years that might disagree.

Regards,
Jerry

 

[black knife]

You don't have much faith in our soldiers!

The argument you are using here sounds a lot like the arguments the anti-gunners use to fight concealed carry: People can't control their anger! It will be a bloodbath!

Our soldiers generally have more restraint and self discipline than civilians. I served for a few years, spent quite a bit of time at bars with other soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen. Never once did I see a brawl break out, although there were some heated discussions :argue:

I would think that soldiers, many of whom are more skilled and experienced with firearms than most civilians, would be less likely to cause trouble carrying concealed than most of us on this board!

How many people do you know that carry when going to a bar, or carry while drinking? Do you hold our soldiers in such low regard that you think they would go out bar hopping and drinking while carrying?

I find it embarrassing and aggravating that the people defending and dying for our liberties are denied those same liberties.

Well I am gald that you have never been in a fight.....but I can remember when I was in Okinawa and me and my fellow Marines went to an Airforce base to visit the E-Club....we were told that no Marines were allowed in the E-Club because of all the fights between Marines and Airmen....I can't count how many fights that took place between Marines in my own Company after drinking was involved...so I don't know what service you were in or what you did while you were in the service and I dont' care....but to state that there is no violence inside the military is wrong......on every military base you have crimes as rape, murder, child molesting, stealing, drug dealing, domestic violence and even gangs....all by done by those that serve in the military.

If you dont' believe me contact any Provost Marshal or M.P. station and they will tell you the same thing...so don't pretend that that all military personnel are all good and responsible because you are wrong. They are human just like you and me.

 

[2ndAmend]

Well I looked at not having my weapon on base as a no carry at the work place policy. As a Marine we were NOT allowed (or would we want to) wear our utilities out in town, it makes you an instant target. Off base in civilian attire we are allowed to carry and that’s all that matters. Gunman shooting up a base is rare so on base I do feel safe. If the Military or federal gov starts allowing CC on bases then we risk a higher chance of some crazy person shooting up the base.

As for black knife's post I would have to respectfully disagree. Having been in a couple of bar fights I know the risks of being in that situation. Knowing other Marines that CC, when we go out the guns stay home plain in simple. People (not just Marines or Soldiers) will do what they want period.

 

[ethorman]

I can understand both side of the story and it is a great view, but regardless of the fact, you can not drink in a military uniform, that is the law now. I understand that back when you served you could.... I am sure that most states and they can even impliment that drinking and carrying is very illegal.... Solider, Marines, Airmen all carry knives but when we get into fights you dont see them stabbing each other? I am sure they can supervise some sort of rules as well. Lets says you must have 8+ years in service, be a E-6 or E-7 and above to carry. Sure the lower enlisted wouldnt like those ideas, however its a incentive for them to get promoted. Everyone has their own opinon, I am not saying that we need to arm ever single person that is serving. What I was talking about is those that are licensed to be able to lawfully carry.

In saying that if someone is so set on his ways during a heated discussion and pulls out a gun and shoots his battle budy then would you really of wanted him in the foxhole next to you when you deployed....I know I wouldnt.

 

[Daddy Warcrimes]

I understand that its is a "Post" policy of no CCW on post, but the military says that you can not carry in uniform.

Curious, where does it say you can't carry in uniform?

 

[2ndAmend]

I can understand both side of the story and it is a great view, but regardless of the fact, you can not drink in a military uniform, that is the law now.

Is that a new rule for the Army? Marines are allowed to drink in uniform, at the E-Club on base and out in town when in "Service" uniforms.

 

[OPFOR]

black knife - aside from the obvious disdain you seem to have for the EMs (and perhaps a severe lack of self control that might serve to prohibit YOU from carrying concealed), your "logic" is fatally flawed. It's already against regulations to go into bars and drink while in uniform (with some exceptions). Allowing NON drunk, NON belligerent troops who are NOT in uniform and who have jumped through the hoops necessary to carry legally in their state of residence would have no effect on the situation you describe (which, as has been pointed out, is EXACTLY the situation that the antis claim will happen each time a state becomes "shall issue," or any other restriction is eased.)

It's truly sad to see veterans try to take rights away from those who have fought so hard to preserve them, especially based on some boogeyman "what if" scenario that has been predicted by the Brady Bunch (and failed to appear) since the very first moves towards liberalizing concealed carry.

 

[Daddy Warcrimes]

There are rules stating that I can't go to places that primarily sell alcohol in BDU or ACU. I can't drink on duty.

I've never seen anything that says I couldn't visit a pub in my greens.

We have clothes for killing, clothes for working, clothes for working out, and clothes for partying. Just be sure to dress for the occasion.

 

[Harryball]

You don't have much faith in our soldiers!

The argument you are using here sounds a lot like the arguments the anti-gunners use to fight concealed carry: People can't control their anger! It will be a bloodbath!

Our soldiers generally have more restraint and self discipline than civilians. I served for a few years, spent quite a bit of time at bars with other soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen. Never once did I see a brawl break out, although there were some heated discussions :argue:

I would think that soldiers, many of whom are more skilled and experienced with firearms than most civilians, would be less likely to cause trouble carrying concealed than most of us on this board!

How many people do you know that carry when going to a bar, or carry while drinking? Do you hold our soldiers in such low regard that you think they would go out bar hopping and drinking while carrying?

I find it embarrassing and aggravating that the people defending and dying for our liberties are denied those same liberties.

+1 very well put sleepyhead

 

[black knife]

black knife - aside from the obvious disdain you seem to have for the EMs (and perhaps a severe lack of self control that might serve to prohibit YOU from carrying concealed), your "logic" is fatally flawed. It's already against regulations to go into bars and drink while in uniform (with some exceptions). Allowing NON drunk, NON belligerent troops who are NOT in uniform and who have jumped through the hoops necessary to carry legally in their state of residence would have no effect on the situation you describe (which, as has been pointed out, is EXACTLY the situation that the antis claim will happen each time a state becomes "shall issue," or any other restriction is eased.)

It's truly sad to see veterans try to take rights away from those who have fought so hard to preserve them, especially based on some boogeyman "what if" scenario that has been predicted by the Brady Bunch (and failed to appear) since the very first moves towards liberalizing concealed carry.

Who said anything about being in uniform and what does that have to do with anyhting what I wrote. Read it again