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Somewhere in this whole mess of C-19 there has to be a happy medium. Some people believe this is all a vast conspiracy and refuse to wear a mask or take any precautions. Some people, like my wife and I, believe that the virus is very real, but realize that infection rates are low in our county for a variety of reasons. We respect the fact that people need to make a living and choose to take more risks than we do. But given the virulent disagreements we see between individuals it makes us pretty sad that some people are downright disrespectful of those who are at risk.

Here is a very sad case of a man who is about to lose his business in a state that can't seem to find a balance between protecting those at risk while allowing for those who can't afford to not take greater risks.

The Shutdown’s Cost: ‘All My Life’s Work’ Savings, Jobs Created, Everything ... Will Be Gone

The owner of a Michigan car dealership posted an open letter to Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in which he called the government shutdown insane and said it was wiping out his business.

David Tubbs, president of Tubbs Brother Inc., posted the open letter on his Facebook account. His dealership is located in Sanilac County in the city of Sandusky.

“Unless I am allowed to resume business, all of this will be gone,” Tubbs wrote. “All of my life’s work, all of my savings, all the jobs that we created, everything my team built. And the frustration is that it is being done by government decree.”

Tubbs continued, “It’s not the result of a poor economy, or bad business decisions. It’s because of a government imposed shutdown.”

In the letter, Tubbs wrote about the safety precautions his dealership took before the governor’s March 23 executive order called for a shutdown of many businesses.


https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/the-shutdowns-cost-to-one-business-all-my-lifes-work-savings-jobs-created-everything-will-be-gone?fbclid=IwAR3sMSuSywwLDmAcPVVXzN21bte04Kz2CZ57yKQRkTQyZJx-0SUSwqw7Hsk
 

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Protect those at high risk. The elderly and those with health concerns.
They can be isolated if they want to. That is a decision each person, each family needs to make on their own. Not by government decree and overreach.
But for people to lose EVERYTHING they have for this is a sin of the highest magnitude.
It is frightening how easily a lot of citizens have been willing to give in.
This comes from decades of government handouts, people now expect it, want it.
Some are using this to make more in benefits than they made working. That is our money they are getting, our future that is being auctioned off.
Apparently we have reached that tipping point where there are more people wanting to take the government money then work and pay taxes.
They are buying your servitude, and most do not even realize it, or no longer care.
 

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You have to take into consideration that any strategy enacted by politicians will not be the best option. This country's health response to the Swine Flu vs COVID-19 was not as devastating to our economy as this current reaction. Sweden seems to be one of the few countries where common sense overrules political judgment.
 

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It seems our benevolent ruling class bases all their edicts on the conditions of such rat holes as new york city and the deplorable conditions there well guess what over 90% (wag) chose not to live under those conditions. We chose to live where we can make our own decisions and take our own chances of those decisions and not some ruling class that thinks they know what is best for us.
 

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I think there could be a happy medium. That is kind of the medium that my wife and I are doing. I am washing my hands a lot, cleaning at our business way more than normal, practicing social distancing when possible, and wiping down my vehicle way more often than I normally do but I don't think that shutting some businesses down saying they are non essential but yet allowing businesses like adult stores to be open is a little ridiculous. I think places like Walmart roping off seed sections but yet liquor stores being essential is weird. I feel sorry for the person you mentioned and I find it ridiculous for people thinking I am selfish because I keep my business open and my employees working. I guess those people feel that I should let almost 18 years of hard work just get blown away because of a virus that I might not even feel symptoms from.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
You have to take into consideration that any strategy enacted by politicians will not be the best option. This country's health response to the Swine Flu vs COVID-19 was not as devastating to our economy as this current reaction. Sweden seems to be one of the few countries where common sense overrules political judgment.
I am not sure Sweden has all the answers either.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/04/22/sweden-health-agency-withdraws-controversial-coronavirus-report/#42052bc74349

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-sweden-suffers-185-deaths-in-one-day/news-story/c9b51b76512a6962d15ee5777de2ab42
 

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50k deaths in the US in a couple of months. Guess it's not "just a flu" like many are saying.

My wife is extremely high risk due to her double lung transplant. Most of TN is going to open up May 1st including tourist attractions so I'll probably be called back to work and I'll be honest, that scares the crap out of me.

People from much higher infected states like NY are going to start coming here and spreading it.

Yes the economy needs to be reopened at some point but IMO it's too early. My priority is my wife's life not the economy. If you don't agree that's fine, we all have different views.
 

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Nobody with enough power saw C-19 coming in time, with enough clarity and enough hard evidence, to take effective action. We still don't know enough about this thing. My heart goes out to people who are losing their jobs and their businesses. My late father was an entrepreneur and he had his business nearly devastated by an unforeseen event, and later had it actually devastated by a series of unforeseen events. It was at the point, he threw in the towel.

In my career, I have been unemployed for over a year three different times. Then in 2009, my wife and I both lost our jobs, our house and our credit ratings due to the stock market crash. We had two kids in college. We almost went bankrupt and had to move across country to a city we didn't like to find work. We had to scrape our way back over 10 years. Now we have no revolving debt, we have good cars that are paid off, we have multiple layers of savings and investments that can withstand all but a complete economic breakdown.

So I am not at all callous about the economic side of this. But this has gone on for only two months. Please. The 2008 crash had businesses going broke and people losing their jobs for years afterwards. People talk about prepping, with water, food, shelter, guns, etc. And it's true most people don't have what they need to survive a crisis. But less is said about economic prepping. Even doomsday preppers rarely talk about that and I will bet most of them aren't economically prepped enough. People need to understand there is no economy you can depend on and that socialism is creating a siren song of a system that makes false promises that it can be depended on and people are falling for it, willing to give up their rights to get it.

We will recover from this, but the recovery will not be pretty. As I heard an economist say last week, this should be an economic wake-up call. People need to understand how fragile the economy can be and no form of government can prevent that. Hopefully in the future, more people will start living below their means and develop a savings buffer. People would be surprised what can be done, even with a modest income. Hopefully, more businesses will hold on to greater cash reserves instead of always trying to grow at unrealistic rates and paying the leadership too much money. And hopefully voters will become more responsible about who we put in office. What I fear is everyone will want the quick fix: Pump up the Nanny State in false hopes it will protect them from anything like this ever happening again. Things like this will happen again. Be ready.
 

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I find it ridiculous for people thinking I am selfish because I keep my business open and my employees working. I guess those people feel that I should let almost 18 years of hard work just get blown away because of a virus that I might not even feel symptoms from.
Good for you. I read an article in the WSJ about a business owner who took out a loan to be able to keep her employees on the payroll. The employees got upset with her, because they could make more money from unemployment and they wouldn't have to do any work for it.
 

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Our governor would tell the car dealership owner that he can get a job at an essential business like a grocery store.

To me, the happy medium would be that people who are concerned stay home, the people who aren’t don’t. The people working in hospitals can go back to focusing on patient care rather than projecting themselves as experts on all aspects of this country, which are mostly things that many of them have paid no attention to until a couple months ago when they became experts.
 

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50k deaths in the US in a couple of months. Guess it's not "just a flu" like many are saying.

My wife is extremely high risk due to her double lung transplant. Most of TN is going to open up May 1st including tourist attractions so I'll probably be called back to work and I'll be honest, that scares the crap out of me.

People from much higher infected states like NY are going to start coming here and spreading it.

Yes the economy needs to be reopened at some point but IMO it's too early. My priority is my wife's life not the economy. If you don't agree that's fine, we all have different views.
Except those 50k deaths include people who were never even tested for the virus, and people who were going to die without the virus. See this creative reporting as one example.

https://www.tuscaloosanews.com/news/20200418/prison-system-reports-covid-19-death
 

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I am not sure Sweden has all the answers either.
There is no "all the answers" response to a virus. It was recently reported that Sweden's death rate per million is the same as the USA even though they haven't closed schools, restaurants, and places where people gather - like workplaces. People who have medical issues or are more vulnerable than others take precautions to minimize their personal health risks.
 

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Saw an interview last night with a scientist from Sweden.
Apparently Sweden did not follow the protocol for shutting everything down.
They are going about life with most schools open, business open.
Their death rate per 100 is not the best, but not the worse by a long shot.
He said by his calculation they will reach herd immunity in 2 more weeks.
Then the virus should diminish rapidly.
He thinks the US and other countries in Europe are just dragging this out. Postponing the deaths that are going to happen no matter what we do.
His math shows that they are in just as good a shape with fatalities as those who have chose to shut it all down and destroy their economies.
So with this herd immunity are we just postponing and dragging out the inevitable deaths at the cost of our freedoms and economy.
Seems to be working out for Sweden.
List of deaths from countries in Europe.

Spain 22,524
Italy 25,549
UK 18,739
France 21,856
Netherlands 4289
Belgium 6679

and Sweden 2152
Compared to bigger and like sized countries they are doing ok without destroying everything.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Kilted Cowboy, you can't just look at the raw numbers when evaluating this type of thing. There are obviously a lot of other factors that must be considered such as the number of deaths as part of the total population, the homogeneity of the population, the density of the population, etc.

For example, why are the deaths in New York City so much higher than the cities in the rest of the country? Factors probably include the fact that almost everyone lives in a high rise, most people use either the subway or taxis rather than a personal vehicle, etc. We're obviously a long way from figuring this all out.
 
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Good for you. I read an article in the WSJ about a business owner who took out a loan to be able to keep her employees on the payroll. The employees got upset with her, because they could make more money from unemployment and they wouldn't have to do any work for it.
Not once did I see an unemployment check that came close to equaling a paycheck for the same period, not to mention loss of health insurance, etc. If it did, it would be proof I was working for the wrong business.
 
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Re: Sweden, just like it is not the socialist paradise the liberals say it is, it is not the COVID solution people say it is. First, they had government recommended quarantine, just not mandated, and in their culture a greater percentage of people comply with government recommendations that we do here. Unlike other countries, Sweden only counts hospital deaths due to COVID. New evidence is coming to light that their real infection and death rate may be as high as Italy's. And even with only voluntary restrictions, their economy has taken a hit.

We push back when socialists use Sweden as an example. We should be just as skeptical about Sweden's COVID results.
 

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Good for you. I read an article in the WSJ about a business owner who took out a loan to be able to keep her employees on the payroll. The employees got upset with her, because they could make more money from unemployment and they wouldn't have to do any work for it.
Stupidity and laziness.
 

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Kilted Cowboy, you can't just look at the raw numbers when evaluating this type of thing. There are obviously a lot of other factors that must be considered such as the number of deaths as part of the total population, the homogeneity of the population, the density of the population, etc.

For example, why are the deaths in New York City so much higher than the cities in the rest of the country? Factors probably include the fact that almost everyone lives in a high rise, most people use either the subway or taxis rather than a personal vehicle, etc. We're obviously a long way from figuring this all out.
I just put the number of total deaths in the post.
He gave their number of deaths per 100 people also. They were better than some and a bit worse than others.
I looked at Belgium and the Netherlands for a similar sized country.
My question still is are we dragging this thing out way longer than if we let the herd immunity take effect?
Will our numbers be that much better if we allow the virus to stay active for a long period of time versus a much shorter period.
Not taking our economy or freedoms into consideration. Just the pure numbers of deaths.
Guess time will tell
 
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