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I've never understood the rationale for the duty to inform.

Officer safety? The criminal will ignore the law. The law abiding citizen is not a threat. So no, not really office safety.

Most of these statutes are can be used as traps on law abiding citizens - what does "promptly" or "immediately" mean?

Example:
Officer: Do you know why I stopped you?
Driver: Uh, no.
Officer: Okay, clocked you going 7 over. License, registration and proof of insurance please.
Driver: Sure, I need to open the glove box, okay?
Officer: Okay, thanks for letting me know.
Driver: One more thing, per state law, I need to inform you that I'm a license carrier and I am carrying right now, it's at 3:30, how do you want to handle it?

Question: Did the drive violate the law? Did he "promptly" or "immediately" inform the officer?

These laws are a mess.
That's because they're not really meant to be obeyed. They're meant for leverage and to intimidate ordinary people.
 

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I've never understood the rationale for the duty to inform.

Officer safety? The criminal will ignore the law. The law abiding citizen is not a threat. So no, not really office safety.
Which is exactly the mantra the Ohio FOP chants in opposing the removal of notification every legislative session.

"The FOP strongly opposes HB 89 because it threatens officer safety."

If there's a problem with notification, according to the FOP it's the fault of the licensees not the officers.

"Perhaps the issue doesn't lie with the officers but rests with the permit holders."

 

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Looking at the link rtrora provided, it appears she was charged with Carrying a Concealed Weapon, not Failure to Inform.
How can someone be charged with carrying a concealed weapon in their own home? It's your property and you're not in the public domain. This makes no sense and I don't understand it.
 

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You've moved Ohio's must inform requirement to an entirely different discussion. The law says nothing about verbal contact.
I don't believe I have. There is no difference between a traffic stop where you must inform as soon as you're able in some states and a situation where an LEO tries to open a conversation with you. In either case word are exchanged. Now I am not familiar with Ohio law or North Carolina law when it comes to must inform but I would imagine the law does not specifically and only address traffic stops. Could be wrong with this but I would imagine it addresses contact, as in one being approached by an LEO and questions commence.

Again, since we don't have anything like that here I am essentially clueless about how it is handled and practiced in other states that do have it, as I have never been faced with anything like this.
 

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How can someone be charged with carrying a concealed weapon in their own home? It's your property and you're not in the public domain. This makes no sense and I don't understand it.
Anyone can be charged with pretty much anything at any time. Whether charges fly or not remains to be determined. I'm in no way suggesting it's right, but as one who has personally been wrongfully charged (and acquitted) with bogus nonsense in the past, I can assert with certainty that it happens. Cops didn't go to law school.
 

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I don't believe I have. There is no difference between a traffic stop where you must inform as soon as you're able in some states and a situation where an LEO tries to open a conversation with you. In either case word are exchanged. Now I am not familiar with Ohio law or North Carolina law when it comes to must inform but I would imagine the law does not specifically and only address traffic stops. Could be wrong with this but I would imagine it addresses contact, as in one being approached by an LEO and questions commence.

Again, since we don't have anything like that here I am essentially clueless about how it is handled and practiced in other states that do have it, as I have never been faced with anything like this.
In Ohio, there are indeed differences between traffic stops and verbal contacts. One is spelled out specifically in the revised code. The other, apparently can be applied at LE discretion to suit the situation. I've been involved while armed in both situations. If I'm approached by LE and asked questions, I at least am taking it to mean that the encounter is official that I must inform. When in doubt, I err on the side of caution.
 

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Which is exactly the mantra the Ohio FOP chants in opposing the removal of notification every legislative session.

"The FOP strongly opposes HB 89 because it threatens officer safety."

If there's a problem with notification, according to the FOP it's the fault of the licensees not the officers.

"Perhaps the issue doesn't lie with the officers but rests with the permit holders."

I read the testimony, none of the arguments he makes is convincing to me. The case of the intoxicated woman - the officer was never in danger. And the hypothetical would not have changed due to the law:

He asks to see it, and she hands it to him. The officer
then asks if there is a weapon in the car. At first, she lies but eventually tells
him it is in the glovebox. The license plate did not indicate she was a CCW
permit holder. Until the officer requests to see the permit, she never told him
she was a permit holder when she had ample time to do so. What would have
happened if she was hostile and threatening to the officers and aggressively
reached into the glove box?


The rhetorical question is unpersuasive. To think that the duty to inform would have made any difference in the situation where the hostile party is going for the gun is ludicrous.

As for his experience that people who lie are about to commit a crime, well, does that mean they will be truthful because of the law?

Perhaps we could look at the data of states that do not require duty to inform and states that do. Have officers been killed or injured by licensed carriers at a disproportional rate in states that do not require a duty to inform v. states that do require a duty to inform? Highly doubtful...
 

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Personally, Ohio's legislative duty to inform doesn't trouble me nearly as much as felony carry zones, and force of law gunbuster signs, neither of which have been addressed by the Republican legislature at all in recent years. The (in my opinion) inconsequential duty to inform controversy is no more than a misdirection by those ostensiby for and against it to render the appearance of actually doing something. I receive outrage porn solicitations from "gun rights groups" wanting contributions to "fight for my rights" on this particular issue, while the genuine problems that affect all who legally carry go entirely unaddressed.
 

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I am really surprised that women's advocacy groups haven't gotten involved with this?

Back when I worked patrol, our department did not want to do anything to discourage abused woman from reporting domestic abuse.

Talk about being victimized twice.

The liberator has become the oppressor!







Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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How can someone be charged with carrying a concealed weapon in their own home? It's your property and you're not in the public domain. This makes no sense and I don't understand it.
It doesn't have to make sense. Guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proof rest on the accused.
Anyone can be charged with pretty much anything at any time. Whether charges fly or not remains to be determined. I'm in no way suggesting it's right, but as one who has personally been wrongfully charged (and acquitted) with bogus nonsense in the past, I can assert with certainty that it happens. Cops didn't go to law school.
I'm sure that the process to your acquittal was arduous while being quite leisurely for your accusers.
 

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It doesn't have to make sense. Guilty until proven innocent and the burden of proof rest on the accused.

I'm sure that the process to your acquittal was arduous while being quite leisurely for your accusers.
That would be correct. Lawyers, time off work, travel to court, etc.
 

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In Ohio, there are indeed differences between traffic stops and verbal contacts. One is spelled out specifically in the revised code. The other, apparently can be applied at LE discretion to suit the situation. I've been involved while armed in both situations. If I'm approached by LE and asked questions, I at least am taking it to mean that the encounter is official that I must inform. When in doubt, I err on the side of caution.
Since was are not a duty to inform state, I am under no requirement to inform an officer that I am armed, be it a traffic stop or something else, unless asked due to a RAS or PC situation. That said, were I to be the subject of a traffic stop, I suppose I would base whether or not I would inform on my perceived state of the officer. Does he appear to be edgy or anxious about something (he may have very recently been involved in a pursuit)? Does he appear to have the "God syndrome"? Or is his demeanor friendly and respectful? I don't get traffic stopped often (three times in the past 50 years) and the last two times were (1) a mistake on the part of the officer and (2) apparently a young state LEO in training. In both of those cases, I did inform and nothing came of either one. The officers apologized for impeding my journey and that was it.
 

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Not knowing situation. As I understood. Sounds like a stupid charge. But like most it sounds like slanted story. To disarm a person who called Police to remove a unwanted man in the house. So they remove your tool to defend yourself. I suspect the male was released within days. Her guns will not.
Wonder if Officer would feel bad if she gets killed by the guy?
But the truth could be much different.
 
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