[gdm320]

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...r-washington-state-air-force-base-merged.html

We've had the discussion before: intervene vs. do not intervene. I know when I first started here I thought of myself as more likely to intervene... then some folks with candid thoughts put my ideas in perspective changed my mindset a bit. For the record, I think you for that.

Then I read the story, which is being discussed in the news section of course.

Simple scenario: You're in this exact coffee shop. MWAG walks in and starts shooting at the LEOs mentioned. Assume you're in this coffee shop. You're having a cup of coffee with your wife (or husband, son, daughter, whatever). You don't have easy access to cover or an exit. You have a clean shot. Do you take it?

If not, what would you do? Just curious what people's thoughts are on such a scenario.

 

[dnowell]

When the shooting starts, you can't possibly know that the guy's going to stop once he's killed the police officers. My assumption would be that he's just going after the armed guys first, and everyone else is probably next.

So yes, you take the shot -- better to deal with him while he's distracted than when he's coming after you.

 

[Divebum47]

Yes. Dnowell says it all.

 

[BDKnow]

I would take the shots plural. Too many instances like this could have been dispersed with a couple of precise, disabling shots. One hit would slow it down for a second and the LEO's could get into gear.

 

[matiki]

When the shooting starts, you can't possibly know that the guy's going to stop once he's killed the police officers. My assumption would be that he's just going after the armed guys first, and everyone else is probably next.

So yes, you take the shot -- better to deal with him while he's distracted than when he's coming after you.

+2

Positive feelings toward LEO's aside, there's absolutely no way for you to know the shooter doesn't intend to take you and/or your loved ones out as well.

 

[Snowman23]

+3 no way to know that he would stop.

 

[shooterX]

+4 what everyone else has said.

 

[roalho]

Not sure what I would do personally, but for those of you that know you would take the shot, I would hope that the recently shot at LEO's would quickly recognize you as a deliverer of "friendly fire" and "not" return said fire in their excitement.

 

[searcher 45]

I carry to defend myself, family and others.

There is no way to know if the LEOs are his only targets.

I would shoot to stop the killing with no regrets about it.

 

[sigmanluke]

Absolutely, it would be the only good choice.

 

[cliffyp]

I think my first instict would be "flight". If there is cover or an exit I would be moving for it. If there is no where to go, in essence "cornered", then I'll shoot because the assumption would be that i'm next. Obviously these LEOs where caught off gaurd. Imagine you are them, all of a sudden a shot rings out and one of you buds goes down, then another shot and another bud drops. At this point you may not know what's happening or where the shots are coming from. You are scrambling, trying to get up, draw and place the threat all at once. You hear another shot (from the concealed license) you see a man with gun in hand at the ready (the licensee), i think the cops drop him. Afterwards they might put it all together but too late for the licensee

 

[roalho]

~snip~

i think the cops drop him. Afterwards they might put it all together but too late for the licensee

Yeah, that scenario is pretty much what kept me from committing to taking this particular shot.

 

[ccw9mm]

From what I've read in reports: yes, I believe I would.

The other morning, I was in a small diner that sounds like this one. It was a small, single room, with a door in the back that led to the kitchen, and with a register up front near the entrance to the room. Seating for about 25 at eight tables. If the LEO's had been in that room, the shooter would have been within 12-15 ft, he'd have been distracted with the task at hand, unlikely to have seen a person get into the fight.

Even if I didn't know the details of how such a scene started, it would be quickly apparent that 4+ LEO's were being taken down by one active shooter.

The real risk would have been that of being taken for a BG and taken out by the surviving cops. But I believe the high likelihood of terminating the threat would combine with the simple reality of my affecting the amount of fire being directed toward the police.

~snip~

i think the cops drop him. Afterwards they might put it all together but too late for the licensee

Yeah, that scenario is pretty much what kept me from committing to taking this particular shot.

A definite possibility. With a team of 4+ LEO's who know and trust each other, I'm betting they'll be very aggressive at attempting to suppress fire, any fire, unless it's patently clear that it's friendly. Still, depending on positions of everyone and whether the shots to the BG can be "in the clear," it might be incredibly obvious that a GG has gotten into the fight and is strictly targeting the BG. Depends.

All of this presumes I did not have someone else's safety to be concerned with, such as that of a child or spouse. And it all presumes the scenario has "a clear shot" to the BG, else almost certainly one would find multiple LEO's taking shots at the GG-presumed-BG. Bad juju. If either of these two ranks high, I'd make like a hole in the wall unless targeted directly, otherwise ...

Everything would depend on circumstances, but I am seeing the calculus as: (a) high likelihood of termination of threat; (b) relatively low likelihood of the BG being able to mount a serious defense against someone who surprised him during commission of that crime; and (c) low likelihood of being taken for a BG by the surviving LEO's.

 

[64zebra]

ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY!!!!!!!

yes take the shots, keep pulling the trigger until this active shooter is no longer a threat...period
maybe kneel down to avoid any rounds getting through him and hitting other innocents (because they'll all be hits since we practice....right?:smile
there is no guarantee that he is only shooting the cops

 

[muzzleloader]

I don't think it takes much deduction to know what is going down. Your witnessing murder. Take the shots while moving you and yours to any hard cover or distance. Probably a very short window of opportunity to end it while BG is ocupied. Nice if you have planned ahead with your significant other and can respond without too much confusion. She scoots the kids out of harms way and you concentrate on solving the problem. You don't have to decide if BG is only going to kill the cops. A resonable person would think witnesses are next. IMHO of course.

 

[WHEC724]

ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY!!!!!!!

yes take the shots, keep pulling the trigger until this active shooter is no longer a threat...period
maybe kneel down to avoid any rounds getting through him and hitting other innocents (because they'll all be hits since we practice....right?:smile
there is no guarantee that he is only shooting the cops

This is the response that I was looking for :congrats: . One could second-guess the repercussions all day, but let's not forget that meanwhile there's a madman standing there pulling the trigger on innocents :aargh4: ! If there was ever an opportunity to exercise your training, this is it.

 

[Saber]

Having the distinct honor of 'forethought' I would most certainly take the shot. However, the fact that four uniformed officers went down so quickly, is a testament to the element of surprise.

It wasn’t long ago where two seasoned motor-cops were taken down exactly in the same manner (surprise) and subsequently two more follow-up responders in full SWAT gear were shot and killed by the same shooter.
http://www.ktvu.com/news/18983600/detail.html
Regards,

 

[kybandit]

take the shot, duck for cover and pray that the remaining LEOs will kick into professional mode.

 

[bwhunter65]

i agree

When the shooting starts, you can't possibly know that the guy's going to stop once he's killed the police officers. My assumption would be that he's just going after the armed guys first, and everyone else is probably next.

So yes, you take the shot -- better to deal with him while he's distracted than when he's coming after you.

 

[varob]

ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY!!!!!!!

yes take the shots, keep pulling the trigger until this active shooter is no longer a threat...period
maybe kneel down to avoid any rounds getting through him and hitting other innocents (because they'll all be hits since we practice....right?:smile
there is no guarantee that he is only shooting the cops

This is why I said yes. I see a guy gun down 4 cops, all I'm thinking is" I'm next".

You have to take the shot.