Would you notify LE?

6647 Views 45 Replies 39 Participants Last post by tex45acp, Jun 1, 2006

Trade_Sniper

Discussion Starter · Apr 27, 2006

I wanted to see what your opinions would be. I can see both sides.

Here's the scenario, borrowed from another thread. You're walking back to your car, at night, in a dark parking lot. Someone perceived as 'shady' is approaching you, perhaps asking you some baiting question. You shout verbal warnings telling him not to come any closer, you try to put distance and objects (like cars) between you and them, you change your path/route, none of which seems to phase him, he continues to approach, perhaps with a hand in a pocket or behind his back, at this point you fear for your life and draw your weapon. The BG halts, immediately beats feat in the opposite direction.

Here's the question:
1.) Do you immediately call law enforcement and notify them of the event, telling them that you drew your weapon?
2.) Do you just get in your car and drive away.
3.) Some other option? Please elaborate.

There is a chance that the BG could actually call the police and tell them that some lunatic just pulled a gun on them. If they beat you to the call, it could make you look very bad for a brandishing charge.

On the other hand, if he's a true BG, he'll probably be thankfull he's still breathing and doesn't relish chats with LE, so he won't call them.

Thoughts?

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acparmed

· #2 · Apr 27, 2006

Depending on the situation, I would probably call 911 and advise them of the incident.

The person who calls first is most likely going to be viewed by the PD as the victim and is going to be listened to quicker than the guy who gets picked up after the call goes in.

In another scenario that did actually happen to me I did not call the police.

I was exiting a shopping mall in Los Angeles in about 1988 during the Christmas season with packages. Three local youths decided to take what I had. I had a difference of opinion. I was unarmed and in the melee I bruised their fists with my face and body until I was able to get to my car which was unlocked. Upon opening the door, bleeding, I grabbed the lower end of a pool cue that I kept inside next to the driver seat. When I came up I started swinging. The first guy took a shot above his ear and dropped like a sack of flour. The second guy took a hit to his collar bone and beat a hasty retreat with the third guy. I left the first guy on the ground bleeding from the side of his head and got into my car and drove away.

I reported the incident to no one. I figured that in LA, I was the armed opponent fighting three poor unarmed young kids just out for an evening stroll.

I don't know to this day what damage I did to the first kid. Though I never saw anything of the incident in the newspaper, it's possible I killed him. I honestly didn't care whether I did or not. They started it and I ended it.

My biggest concern in leaving is that someone had gotten my license plates and reported it to the PD, but nothing ever came of it that I know of.

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PatrioticRick

· #3 · Apr 27, 2006

If that happens I'd go ahead and give the cops a heads up as I was driving off. If for no other reason than crime statistics.

MattInFla

· #4 · Apr 27, 2006

Definitely worth a call to the police. If nothing else, it gives them a data point to base patrol patterns on.

If the guy is a genuine BG, he's probably no stranger to the criminal justice system, and may well have warrants. If the police can make contact with him, he may well end up going to jail even though he probably committed no chargeable offense in the scenario presented.

Plus, getting the first call into the police makes you the 'victim' (even though by being armed you refused to actually be one), and would probably help out in the event someone else saw the event (or just saw you) and also called it in.

Matt

Rezmedic54

· #5 · Apr 27, 2006

You bet call LE it is usually believed that he who calls 911 first is the winner.

KenpoTex

· #6 · Apr 27, 2006

I voted "yes, call them" for this specific incident for the reasons already mentioned. You look better if you call first, the police may already be looking for the guy, etc.
If, however, I were to be involved in a situation like the one acparmed mentioned, I would be less likely to call. If I had to use physical force on someone and I was pretty sure that there were no witnesses, surveillance-cameras, etc. I would probably just "take yes for an answer" and leave.

Redneck Repairs

· #7 · Apr 27, 2006

Yes you want to call if you have to draw , and for a reason ill just post thiese links

http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/830601935/m/702106622/r/702106622#702106622
http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/114105653/r/114105653#114105653
http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/546102905/r/546102905#546102905
http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/513103935/p/1
http://sigforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/632100474/r/341108474#341108474

after reading what this poor guy went thro i dont think anyone will have any question about calling

kengmark

· #8 · Apr 27, 2006

One more vote for...

Calling law Enforcement.

When you consider the way politics & law mixes in some states (California comes to mind) the call to a 911 center demonstrates what Vincent Bugliosi called a, "Conciseness of innocence". If the BG called later, like after he ran for a mile or two...the cops need to believe only one of you. I might even stick around to chat with a peace officer.

Thanks,

.45acp

· #9 · Apr 27, 2006

I at this point in my life would have called.
In my younger days I was stabbed and robbed. I lived in a bad section of town in a major city. No one knew, not LE, not medical personell, not my parents, I treated myself.
Now years later as a mature adult I would handle the situation in a similiar (but not same) manner and would seek medical attention and notify LE.
I'm no longer in that environment and my honest hope is that I'll never again have to be in such a situation.

AirForceShooter

· #10 · Apr 27, 2006

Get in the car and leave.
I haven't done anything wrong why would I call?

AFS

artz

· #11 · Apr 27, 2006

AirForceShooter said:
Get in the car and leave.
I haven't done anything wrong why would I call?

AFS

I would do the same....

Forstr

· #12 · Apr 27, 2006

My take: I would get in my car and get out of there, first thing. Make sure you are in the clear first thing, whether you call or not. I would probably call in a report of suspicious activity and give a description of the guy. If I drew my weapon, I would not say anything. You're not breaking the law by omitting that, and there is not record of "John Doe" drawing a weapon. I see it mainly as a CYA deal. Say, for instance, you are somehow on record as having drawn your weapon. Say now that some time later you, heaven forbid, end up in a defensive shooting. Would you not want every legal advantage possible? What I mean by that is, depending on where you are, who the DA is, etc, a "history of 'brandishing' a weapon" might very well be concocted by local media or others trying to make hay out of a gun issue.

In short, saying that you drew a weapon does nothing positive, and has the potential (however small that is), to bite you in the keester later.

Edit to add: I seriously doubt that some shady character would want to draw attention to himself by making a call to the police to report someone pulling a weapon on them, when they were clearly up to no good (this is assuming that the armed citizen was in the right).

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Puppage

· #13 · Apr 27, 2006

I agree with RezMedic. There was a case here in CT where just what you described happened. The intended victim went home, only to have the cops at his door 2 hours later. He told the cops what happened, and they believed him (the BGs had long rap sheets) but because THEY called first, he was arrested.

Shekkian

· #14 · Apr 27, 2006

AirForceShooter said:
Get in the car and leave.
I haven't done anything wrong why would I call?

AFS

You would definitely be doing yourself a favor to report an incident. If the bad guy runs to the cops first and complains about some guy flashing a gun around then you'll have a lot of explaining to do. If you call it in then the police will more likely take your side.

havegunjoe

· #15 · Apr 27, 2006

I voted to call.

kenpotex said:
IIf I had to use physical force on someone and I was pretty sure that there were no witnesses, surveillance-cameras, etc. I would probably just "take yes for an answer" and leave.

Just a point of interest, I have a niece who works for the police department. Her job is to analyze those grainy films you see of hold ups, etc.. Last year a police officer was shot and killed. She was called in to check, I think If I remember correctly she told me, 18 different films taken around the scene of the crime. Just goes to show you never know who or what is watching you.

Betty

· #16 · Apr 27, 2006

I would also call the police. I also live in a more self-defense friendly state, and I can sympathize with acparmed's story and why he did not call. It's a sad thing when self-defense is so frowned upon that people feel like they can't report it to the cops without fear of being prosecuted as the aggressor. :tired:

Trade_Sniper

Discussion Starter · #17 · Apr 27, 2006

Forstr said:
My take: I would get in my car and get out of there, first thing. Make sure you are in the clear first thing, whether you call or not. I would probably call in a report of suspicious activity and give a description of the guy. If I drew my weapon, I would not say anything. You're not breaking the law by omitting that, and there is not record of "John Doe" drawing a weapon. I see it mainly as a CYA deal. Say, for instance, you are somehow on record as having drawn your weapon. Say now that some time later you, heaven forbid, end up in a defensive shooting. Would you not want every legal advantage possible? What I mean by that is, depending on where you are, who the DA is, etc, a "history of 'brandishing' a weapon" might very well be concocted by local media or others trying to make hay out of a gun issue.

In short, saying that you drew a weapon does nothing positive, and has the potential (however small that is), to bite you in the keester later.

Edit to add: I seriously doubt that some shady character would want to draw attention to himself by making a call to the police to report someone pulling a weapon on them, when they were clearly up to no good (this is assuming that the armed citizen was in the right).

All the points posted by everyone are valid. The issue above is the only one that concerns me and thus why I questioned it in my own mind. I'm a friend of LE and have the utmost respect for them and their jobs...BUT I wouldn't want the quoted scenario above to happen either...

I guess what rubs me the wrong way is the 'brandishing' issue. If you had a legitimate reason (key phrase) to pull out a weapon and it diffused a potentially violent and/or deadly situation, a person shouldn't be punished for it. The problem is that lawmakers don't have any clear definition for legitimate reasons, its all gray areas, and gray areas can fall either way because they are open to interpretation, in your favor or against you depending on circumstance, law enforcement, politicians, media, etc.

Scott

· #18 · Apr 27, 2006

I would call for a couple reasons and would be careful in my phrasing, but honest in responses to any questions.

I would state that I was approached in a parking lot and there was an attempt to assault me. Relate any description info I can.

If the police ask what I did I would tell them. If they don't, I don't need to tell them.

This does a couple things. I am on record as reporting it in case the other guy decides to make a call.

It gives LE a description of the BG. The LEOs will watch out for the BG. It also puts the location it occurred on the radar as well. This can lead to increased patrols or presence. This may lead to the BG being caught or at the very least increase the potential of them being caught. All good things in my opinion.

-Scott-

jarhead79

· #19 · Apr 27, 2006

IF there are witnesses, I'm on the phone. If BG tried to roll me in a secluded area and I drew down and he split, not a chance, other than to maybe report the attempted robbery.

Rock and Glock

· #20 · Apr 27, 2006

I guess I still think like a child:

First caller to LEO's wins!

Kind of like being a kid beating a path to Mom to rat out kid sister, even thou they instigated the incident.....

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