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Discussion Starter #1
I wonder what the range was?

[/b]Cops: Merchant Kills Attacker[/b]
THE COURIER NEWS
January 2, 2005

CAMDEN – An East Camden store owner fatally shot a would-be robber armed with a knife, authorities said.

The shooting happened about 12:30 pm Friday at Camden City Wireless and Fishing Supplies on Westfield Avenue.

A spokesman for the Camden County Prosecutor’s office said the suspect entered the store, grabbed the proprietor’s wife and threatened her as he announced a robbery.

The merchant then drew a handgun and shot the suspect once in the head when he ignored demands to release the woman.

The 32-year old suspect, whose name was being withheld pending notification of relatives, was pronounced dead at the scene. The death was the 54th homicide in Camden in 2004, six short of the record set in 1995.

No one else was in the store at the time of the shooting, authorities said.

Authorities said the gun used by the store owner was properly registered, and there was a permit to keep it in the shop.


Man killed in robbery attempt may be rape suspect, police say
1/2/2005, 10:57 a.m. ET
The Associated Press

CAMDEN, N.J. (AP) — A man shot and killed during a robbery attempt in a Camden store may be the suspect in a string of rapes last year in the city.

It may take a week or so before authorities can get results of a DNA test to determine whether Antonio Diaz Reyes, 32, of Philadelphia, was the rapist, Camden County Prosecutor\'s spokesman Bill Shralow told the Courier-Post of Cherry Hill.

Reyes was killed Friday by Ngoc Le, the owner of Camden City Wireless and Fishing Supplies in the East Camden neighborhood.

Authorities said Reyes was holding Le\'s 22-year-old wife at knifepoint when Le shot and killed the man.

The daytime knifepoint attack is similar to three sexual assaults and robberies in the city\'s downtown area in November and December.

Last month, police said they had DNA evidence to link all three of those cases to the same suspect.

In each of them, the perpetrator used a knife, had a robbery motive and targeted female victims in their teens or 20s.

For his part, Le has not been charged with any crimes.
 

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Would depend on the range .. And if you liked your wife or not :p would be a hard shot to take unless it was super close
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Tc, at what range would you be confident with shot placement???
 

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Fairly close less than say 7 yards.. i know its not real world but at the range at 7 yards i can keep um all in the head at that range but thats not a moving subject with another moving subject in the way..

I just hope im not put in that postion to have to make that shot..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Tc I hear you. Not a situation I would like to be in either.

Mike, at what range would you be comfy with the shot?

~A
 

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At 7 yards I would take the shot. If I did hit my wife I would empty my gun in the BG, reload and save the last one for myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Bumper, definitely not a scenario I could envision much less prepare for. The thought of having to make such a strategically placed surgical shot is not one I have mentally planned for.

~A

Originally posted by Bumper
At 7 yards I would take the shot. If I did hit my wife I would empty my gun in the BG, reload and save the last one for myself.
 

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Hey, Hon....this is a perfect opportunity to talk about that new pistol.

Seriously, yeah, gonna have to take the shot inside room distances. For leo with negotiating skills, the more time the better. For me, it looks like things would be deterriorating rapidly. The quicker the end, the better. If you put your gun down, your both gonna die, I figure. Or at least he\'s taking her as a shield and who knows what else. And if you ever lose sight of her, next time you see her may be on a slab.
Might be a good time to talk with your wife (and kids) about a code for \"fall limp to the ground\". Even the lightest person is hard to keep upright in front of your face as deadwieght.

Dan
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yup, I just sent my wife this link as well as the accuracy claims of my next pistol. She just chuckled and also said she knows I could pull off the shot if need be and that felt pretty good. Hope it never comes to that.

Limp body is a good idea though.

~A

Originally posted by jdsumner
Hey, Hon....this is a perfect opportunity to talk about that new pistol.

Seriously, yeah, gonna have to take the shot inside room distances. For leo with negotiating skills, the more time the better. For me, it looks like things would be deterriorating rapidly. The quicker the end, the better. If you put your gun down, your both gonna die, I figure. Or at least he\'s taking her as a shield and who knows what else. And if you ever lose sight of her, next time you see her may be on a slab.
Might be a good time to talk with your wife (and kids) about a code for \"fall limp to the ground\". Even the lightest person is hard to keep upright in front of your face as deadwieght.

Dan
 

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this is something that really bothers me about a hostage situation...if you are going to take that chance you better be sure of your shot...for me its something i practice allot....not only someone holding a loved one but what if they are running off with a child (maybe your own)....try running towards your target making nothing but head shots..its tough but i do practice it every time i get the chance....and i would take the shot....i would just like to thank tim oliver for the training!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Where does Tim Oliver instruct at???

Originally posted by hummel
...i would just like to thank tim oliver for the training!!!
 

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I\'m confident with a headshot at 15 yards, however with a loved one in the line of fire you may as well cut that distance in half...

Maybe try to talk him down, explain his options, if he kills the hostage he loses his sheild and opens himself up to gunfire from myself. If he stalls too long, he has to worry about more gunfire from arriving LEOs. While I would shoot him if need be, I dont want to because of legal fees. His only option for survival would be to release the hostage and get a head start on his getaway.

However, since I probably wouldn\'t think of any that in that situation, I\'d probably fire, depending on my confidence in that situation.
 

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I hope to never be placed in that situation but if it looked like no other option, I\'d most likely make the shot. I think I\'d stall as long as possible and try to talk them into just fleeing without the hostage. Taking the shot would be last ditch after nothing else tried worked. :(
 

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Regardles of what the distance involved was, the man is a true hero. Congratulations to him for both saving the lives of his wife and himself, and sending another waste of space on a well-deserved trip to the morgue. :kay:

As far as what I would do in that same situation, I\'d take the shot. My attitude is the same as Detective Murtaugh(Danny Glover) in Lethal Weapon when he said, \"If she\'s gonna die, it will be by my hand.\" Or something like that)
 

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My grilfirend and I have agreed that in such a situtation I should take the shot. We also have a code word that when I say she hits the floor and I shoot. This was recommended by an instructor of mine and I think its a pretty good idea for all couples to have a plan like this.
 

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tim oliver instructs in columbia,mo ......and if he can not get range time in columbia he goes to a range near branson,mo.....he offers advanced courses as well as basic...does he teach you how to run and shoot now its not really safe to do at a range that i know....but he teaches tactical situations in the advanced classes....
 

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Anybody know what kind of sidearm was used? 5\" 1911, 2\" snubie...:question:
 
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