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This could have ended a lot worse than it did. She is lucky. As for the actions of the police, No comment...:mad:
 
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Knock knock

Who's there?

No wait....

Whatever investigation that takes place will be interesting. I'm prepared for disappointment.
 
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It appears that it was in 2006 and three officers were convicted of manslaughter charges.
 

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"While she waited the US Marshals explained they were acting on an anonymous tip that led them to her home."

This just makes me seethe with rage. If you enter my home you had darn well better have more to go an than an anonymous tip.
 

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Why don't they just rename themselves the KGB. That seems to be the same tactics used on the Russian citizens when there was still a KGB. Actions such as this should not be tolerated in this country.
 
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Police Officers have a tough job - especially sorting good guys from bad. That said, they also have a duty to do the homework and background on every entry (warrant or warrant-less?) and by that I mean perform the due diligence required. This type of thing puts police agencies in a bad light and it does get remembered by the general public and especially by the media. The department can conduct ten good operations but have one like this and the other nine operations done correctly are forgotten. The other bone to pick with this is the attitude "we're the Police, Federal Marshall, FBI, etc. and we can do what we want". - No you can't and there is case law that tells you that. Additionally,your agency needs to be funded and there maybe a lot of issues getting funding at the next budget hearing because perception is reality.

And the reality is your going to be paying a lot of $$$ in litigation to these people who your agency decided "we can do what we want" in their own home. And shoot some innocent person in their own home - the cost just tripled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Police Officers have a tough job - especially sorting good guys from bad. That said, they also have a duty to do the homework and background on every entry (warrant or warrant-less?) and by that I mean perform the due diligence required. This type of thing puts police agencies in a bad light and it does get remembered by the general public and especially by the media. The department can conduct ten good operations but have one like this and the other nine operations done correctly are forgotten. The other bone to pick with this is the attitude "we're the Police, Federal Marshall, FBI, etc. and we can do what we want". - No you can't and there is case law that tells you that. Additionally,your agency needs to be funded and there maybe a lot of issues getting funding at the next budget hearing because perception is reality.
I agree 100% with the above.

And the reality is your going to be paying a lot of $$$ in litigation to these people who your agency decided "we can do what we want" in their own home. And shoot some innocent person in their own home - the cost just tripled.
This part, not so much... Even in error, the police and marshals are operating under the color of law. People reaching for/ holding a phone have been shot, deemed a justifiable shoot.

This woman was very fortunate, she was actually holding a gun, and aiming at the officer. Had she been shot, there would be no question of the justifiability of the shoot, regardless of being the wrong address... Right or wrong, it seems that once law enforcement is on a scene, any scene, it becomes "their turf." Any resistance, even justifiable resistance, is happening in their "sphere of influence." And becomes, at the very least, "interference with official acts" And at the worst, ends up with a body, a civilian body.

These occurrences are quite rare, but it seems they are becoming more frequent. Is it because of the latitude we the citizenry have given them through laws (whether we wanted them or not, our representatives enacted these laws). Is it because of the "arms race" that law enforcement has gotten caught up in? Is it because of terrorism? As rare as mistaken identities occur, litigation favoring the wrong victim seems rarer yet.
 

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Serious question: I have been wondering if home invasions are on the rise, or are we just hearing about all of them because of the internet, or whatever? I dont know the answer to that, but it seems like there are more and more home invasions happening now.

That being said, isnt it possible that LE is going to start getting shot up with these no knock home invasions they are doing? Shot by honest Joe Citizen, who has no reason to think that some SWAT team is hitting his house.

It seems to me that if THEY are the ones worried about meeting armed response, from regular citizens who fear from every day violence, that they might change what they are doing. Btw, Im certainly not advocating shooting LE, but if its the response they get because they are at the wrong house, and those living there think its just armed thugs....shrug.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Serious question: I have been wondering if home invasions are on the rise, or are we just hearing about all of them because of the internet, or whatever? I dont know the answer to that, but it seems like there are more and more home invasions happening now.

That being said, isnt it possible that LE is going to start getting shot up with these no knock home invasions they are doing? Shot by honest Joe Citizen, who has no reason to think that some SWAT team is hitting his house.

It seems to me that if THEY are the ones worried about meeting armed response, from regular citizens who fear from every day violence, that they might change what they are doing. Btw, Im certainly not advocating shooting LE, but if its the response they get because they are at the wrong house, and those living there think its just armed thugs....shrug.
Most of the time when LEO enters a house forcibly, it's a team and they are wearing armor... Your chances of surviving that and wounding an entering LEO in armor and a helmet are pretty slim.

As to home invasions on the rise... perhaps... and with larger teams of BGs doing the entering...
 

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Serious question: I have been wondering if home invasions are on the rise, or are we just hearing about all of them because of the internet, or whatever? I dont know the answer to that, but it seems like there are more and more home invasions happening now.
As to home invasions on the rise... perhaps... and with larger teams of BGs doing the entering...
In general, violent crimes are dropping. I'm not sure how Home Invasions fit into that, though.
 

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It seems that they used her reacting in fear of a man pointing a gun at her through her window as justification for a no-knock search. I think that is a normal reaction, the same excused was used in Berwyn Heights, Maryland mayor's residence drug raid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Despite the criticisms, no action has been taken against the officers or their respective police departments. In August 2010, Sheriff Jackson stated that "we'd do it again. Tonight." - from referenced article.

Really?? Well you gotta respect a man that learns from his mistakes.
 

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“We were clearly the police,” said Matt Wiggins, an officer with the U.S. Marshal’s fugitive division and the one she argued with at the door. “She can’t say she didn’t know.” Louise Goldsberry: Police SWAT Team Raids Wrong Apartment, 59-Year-Old Nurse Pulls Gun

Mr. Wiggins should become a DC member and then he would become aware of the times when people were posing as officers to gain entry into apartments, only to assault and rob the victims that naively believed them. Just because someone says they are LEO, it doesn't mean they are indeed LEO. If she was innocent and had not done any wrong, she was completely rational to have doubts and not believe it was the police outside her door. Also, don't give me crap about how they were wearing vests and this should have clued her in. Anyone can buy tactical vests and I'm sure its not hard to dress one up to look like LEO/SWAT gear. It wouldn't have to be a perfect clone, after all its in the dark and in the dark - a vest looks like a vest.

Its easy to armchair quarterback this but unless they believed someone was currently being abused at the exact same moment they wanted to gain entry, I don't know why they might not want to wait if they were asked for some time. I wonder of the outcome if she had yelled that she is more than willing to comply with them so long as she can verify they are who they say they are, etc. A quick call to 9-1-1 would do this and de-escalate the matter by a million percent. I wonder if they would wait for her to call 9-1-1 to verify their identity? This could have turned out very nasty. How many times have we read on this forum that during a home invasion, we would barricade ourselves in the bedroom? They have armor but never underestimate the actions of a determined spirit that is in fear of his/her life - thinking they are combatting evil, and NOT SWAT/U.S. Marshalls.

I realize mistakes are made with investigations and I know LEOs have a tough job but there is no excuse for the cavalier attitude they gave after the account. Is it too much to expect an apology instead of crap like, she should have known better... Unbelievable.

I'm not convinced that this action is above the law and outside the realm of going to court. At the end of the last article I referenced, it said that there was no reason to invade the home w/out a warrant - she had never met Kyle Riley and he was nowhere near the apartment complex. Later he was arrested in a completely different part of Sarasota.

I'm not one to advocate frivolous lawsuits but I believe if it were me, someone would find themselves in front of a judge and possibly thinking about a career change b/c they are about to lose their job.
 

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No knock warrants should not be and never should have been allowed by LE. There is no convincing reason for them, and one innocent person being killed by LE in their own home is as bad or worse than one being killed by a home invasion BG.

Law abiding citizens expect thugs to knock down their door and possibly kill them. Law abiding citizens do not expect LE to kick in their doors and kill them. JMO
 

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No knock warrants should not be and never should have been allowed by LE. There is no convincing reason for them, and one innocent person being killed by LE in their own home is as bad or worse than one being killed by a home invasion BG.

Law abiding citizens expect thugs to knock down their door and possibly kill them. Law abiding citizens do not expect LE to kick in their doors and kill them. JMO
+100

IMO, they were acting like thugs too. I just read a thread about the language being used on the forum so I won't quote the article but the officer that was announcing their intent to bust in was cursing to beat the bandwagon. I'm sure she did have doubts, most people are expecting the "authorities" to behave with a certain amount of dignity and not have a gutter mouth. Its just one more proof of poor discretion that was deployed during a poorly executed mission.
 
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