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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone seen this ammo? I found some at gunbroker and it clearly states HST on the box 180gr.

What's the deal with it?
 

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not i they are usually in a brown box
 

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When big LE agencies buy large quantities of ammunition under GSA contract pricing, the get the product in plain-Jane packaging... The colorful boxes actually cost money to print. Sometimes agencies over-order or even try to recoup some costs by selling their overstock to wholesalers and that is how it winds up back on the civilian market.

Same HST ammunition in a vanilla box.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
When big LE agencies buy large quantities of ammunition under GSA contract pricing, the get the product in plain-Jane packaging... The colorful boxes actually cost money to print. Sometimes agencies over-order or even try to recoup some costs by selling their overstock to wholesalers and that is how it winds up back on the civilian market.

Same HST ammunition in a vanilla box.
The casings are plain brass, no nickle coating.
 

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The casings are plain brass, no nickle coating.
So I was looking at a box of this today but didn't buy it because usually HST is nickle plated and I was confused as to what it was.

Does it matter much that it is straight brass?

A box of 40S&W was $32 for 50 rounds I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You know, I don't think it makes a difference at all. Supposedly, from what I've heard before the nickle is a little slicker so it feeds better out of the magazine. What to make of that? I think it's BS *shrug* I mean Cor-Bon DPX uses standard brass casings and it works fine IME. Nickle casings look fancy though :wink:
 

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Nikle DOES make it easier to do a visual for a round in the chamber in some guns. :scratchchin:
 

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Tactical defense solutions has the same stuff for 29.00 a box
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Tactical defense solutions has the same stuff for 29.00 a box
I saw that too, I mean I've just been seeing this stuff pop up more and more. Wondered what it was about if anyone knew. The idea of a big order that got rejected or an overrun makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Good for the range. Not suitable for defensive purposes.
Where did you pull that from? Failed to meet spec of the order, not Federal's spec or they would not put it out.

I researched it and here's what happens many times. a Large order comes in and they manufacture it. There are criteria the purchasing body must adhere to. I have heard of orders being rejected because they are 4fps over spec in velocity. They could list a variance of 24fps and they are 27fps over and thus rejected.

I don't believe federal would put HST on anything and intend it to be range only, especially not for $30/box of 50. Especially not when they could have pulled the bullets and loaded up more of the tactical box stuff for sale to market.

Unless you have facts don't make those claims. Prove to me that this stuff won't expand as intended and I'll believe that this is range only.

Found on another thread http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13886676
 

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Good for the range. Not suitable for defensive purposes.
It's amazing the nonsense that floats around the Internet as fact.

XM40HC is the standard designation for the LE load. LE contracts are generally packaged in generic packaging.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
i would email federal and ask them if its suitable for duty use.

:image035:
what else is a JHP for? :wave:

I'm not an LEO so there is no "duty" and yes it is a "duty" loading, being that there's no civilian marketed version like Gold Dot, & Winchester PDX1. I do believe I would trust my life to it had I tested it in MY weapon.
 

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Easy fellas! Since the contract specifications are unknown to me I'm never sure just which spec was not met was. It could be cosmetic such as the lack of nickel plating on the case, the type of sealant on the primers or it could be something more important such as a variation in the bullet's jacket. Whatever the reason for the X designation, I would not use it as defensive/offensive/duty/service ammo. I will happily use it at the range any time. This is is from the guy that inspects each round in each box of ammo put into a defensive role. This includes visual inspection as well as determination of the average weight of the round, then weighing of each individual round. Ok, I'm a freak about this stuff but It decreases the chances of getting bad ammo when it's needed the most.
 

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It's amazing the nonsense that floats around the Internet as fact.

XM40HC is the standard designation for the LE load. LE contracts are generally packaged in generic packaging.
FWIW, after checking all of the product information from ATK that I have, was unable to locate anything labeled "XM40HC". Since we're always looking for something better, I would be interested in the specs on the load that you are referring to.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Easy fellas! Since the contract specifications are unknown to me I'm never sure just which spec was not met was. It could be cosmetic such as the lack of nickel plating on the case, the type of sealant on the primers or it could be something more important such as a variation in the bullet's jacket. Whatever the reason for the X designation, I would not use it as defensive/offensive/duty/service ammo. I will happily use it at the range any time. This is is from the guy that inspects each round in each box of ammo put into a defensive role. This includes visual inspection as well as determination of the average weight of the round, then weighing of each individual round. Ok, I'm a freak about this stuff but It decreases the chances of getting bad ammo when it's needed the most.
They can't sell it if it doesn't work. Federal wouldn't want to risk bad press from agencies that have large orders from them.

BTW: you do know that EVERYTHING man made has variances and wouldn't be 100% identical every single time right? That being the case I would suspect even their nickle cased HST to have some slight variances but people carry it daily.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
sure they can, the X means its a second as in X outs, sold @ a discount for training only.

infact the XM193 is not even fit for training by the military as that is all m193 is used for.
You know what LIABILITY is? No? Let me explain it. Lets say they shoot it, and someone gets hurt they will check the ammo. If it is found to be over spec BY ANY MARGIN (lets say 3fps) then they have a fit.

This is CIVILIAN market.

And that's my opinion on it.
 
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