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Texas Gunman Kills 4 in Church, Then Self
Aug 29 10:02 AM US/Eastern
AP Wire

SASH, Texas

A gunman killed four people at a rural church in a small north Texas town, then held off police in an nine-hour standoff before apparently killing himself, officials said Monday.

At least one other person was wounded.

The gunman reportedly knocked on the door of the Sash Assembly of God church Sunday night, then started firing when the door was opened. Three people were shot, including the pastor, according to WFAA-TV in Dallas. It was not immediately clear if the pastor was the wounded person or one of the two dead.

Two women in a car outside the church were then shot and killed, police said.

"These two ladies, from what it appeared, happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time," Fannin County Sheriff Kenneth Moore said.

The man fled and was later tracked to his home near the church in Sash, an unincorporated community about 80 miles north of Dallas near the Oklahoma border.

Sheriff's deputies and a SWAT team surrounded the house, and after the long standoff police initially said the man surrendered just before 6 a.m.

However, when officers entered the home they found the man dead, Moore said.

"We have good reason to believe, based at what we see at the scene, that it was a self-inflicted gunshot wound," Moore said.

Moore said the motive for the shootings had not been determined.

The identities of the gunman and the people killed at the church were not released.
 

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Yep a good reason .. But if you go to the letter of the law in some places Churchs and all the other names they go under are no carry Zones

Unless there posted its ok
 

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Yep, my 1911 goes to church with me at least twice a week. We have several LEO who attend, but they might not be there when the stuff hits the fan.
 

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Bud White said:
Yep a good reason .. But if you go to the letter of the law in some places Churchs and all the other names they go under are no carry Zones

Unless there posted its ok
Not in Texas (where this happened). It is ok in Church unless they post otherwise.
 

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JT said:
Not in Texas (where this happened). It is ok in Church unless they post otherwise.
:biggrin: Good Deal Texas is way more layed back than here.

I think our permits are to restrictive here mtself
 

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Bud White said:
:biggrin: Good Deal Texas is way more layed back than here.

I think our permits are to restrictive here mtself
I made a little off the body carrier for use in church. It is a day planner with a foam lining. Looks just like a cover many have for their Bibles. No one ever notices or asks to see my "Bible." That way I don't have to worry about posted notices or other such nonsense. If the time comes I have to use deadly force, I would trust in the Lord and pray for some intervention on my behalf.
 

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Bottom line - nowhere is guaranteed safe - however much we may like to think so.

To those of us with respect for places, institutions and life itself, church would seem ''off limits'' to attack, for to us obvious reasons. BG/madman mindset however is immune from such moral restrictions.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
You know when you think about it, our churches should be prime targets for terrorists since church is a lot of defenseless people in one place worshipping a God that the terrorists hate. Plus if they time it right, they get the offering money to boot.
 

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I can assure you that MY church is not a safe place for terrorists...I know several people are armed there.
 

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Nothing really new here. Look, if we knew when the burglar was going to come, it would be simple.

We need to be prepared at all times.
 

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Gotta agree. Even if carry were prohibited, I would have mine. After it's over you can be judged by 12 or carried by 6. I prefer the former.
 

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Wyoming said:
I made a little off the body carrier for use in church. It is a day planner with a foam lining. Looks just like a cover many have for their Bibles. No one ever notices or asks to see my "Bible." That way I don't have to worry about posted notices or other such nonsense. If the time comes I have to use deadly force, I would trust in the Lord and pray for some intervention on my behalf.
I don't know if this off body carry is a good idea at church. First you have all types of people running around church and you have kids that are not yours. Secondly, if its not in your hand, locked up, or on your person it is not secured. I would stop this carry method, to me it is unsafe. Now for the benediction "POP", yeah that sudden light headed feeling and rubbery sensation in your legs is definitely for real, assume the position. Carry smart, Carry safe, be courageous... :cool:
 

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p95 hit the nail right on the head, there is no gurantee of safety anywhere.

We see stories and/or view it on TV regularly:gunman shoots [x no. of victims] at the day care, the chuch,the school,etc.etc. Places may be different but the one thing they all share, and the bad guys know this,is that they all are places where there are no arms.

Do you ever wonder why wolves like sheep?

Do you ever wonder why wolves hate sheepdogs?

This is not my saying but i am going to copy it:You can be sheep or you can be a sheepdog....your choice
 

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As a pastor of a small country church, I thought I'd chime in on this...

I agree with the post about the off body carry. NOT a good idea IMHO. Chances are it'll never be left unattended or touched by the wrong person but it's just not appropriate.

Next, in Missouri, its up to the Pastor. In our Church, the rule is you can carry if you can carry legally. In fact, in our Church the pastor not only carrys the Sword of the Lord, but I also carry!

I had a man ask me one time if he could open carry if he came. I think he was trying to be stupid but God loves "all" men and He came to seek and to save the lost. I told him no but that he could carry concealed if he had a permit.

Please carry on your person and never tell ANYONE you carry becasue even telling your best friend at church opens the door to it slipping out and if it gets out to the wrong person, the devil will use this fact to stir up division in the Church.

I expect the godly men of the church to "keep the order" during services, to watch out for their Pastor and to basically be just that, the MEN of the church. But I'm afraid few churches will have the heart I do about it all!

God Bless

Gideon
 

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Gideon - I am not a religious man but hey - I like your thinking - you are my kind of pastor :smile:
 

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What if a certain church announces it's policy about concealed weapons and has said No but there are no postings outside the buildings prohibiting concealed weapons?
 

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If the 'no weapons' is not backed up by a legally proven notice then - a decision would I think have to be a moral one. Acceptable to self to carry, or not? - shall we say ''living with the deception'' - but no law broken.

End of day and as we always say - concealed is concealed! :smile:
 

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You make another great point, as always. Since it has been proven time and time again that nowhere is safe, I will continue to carry wherever possible. My worst nightmare would be for my kids to get hurt somewhere and not have the ability to stop it because I chose not to carry that day.
 

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It's funny, one of the guys in my IDPA club is a dear Christian brother who is also an elder in our church. HE carry's in church every sunday with full knowledge and approval of pastor (Presbyterian PCA was split from the liberal USA faction in the 1960's over the political issue of gun control). I personally only carry in church when the terrorist alert level is at orange. I dunno why then and not at the more "normal" yellow.
 
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