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My firearms novice friend, well he's not so much of a novice any more, but he's not yet as dedicated as I am (hehe) is looking for a rifle.

I will summarize his case and keep him fairly anonymous. He splits his time between a gun friendly state, where the rifle will live, and a non gun friendly state, where he'd rather not be caught dead with it. Other factors such as his place of employment and their policies are in effect here.

Realize this is a guy who by some miracle from God sees the inherent value of a couple of guns and enjoys them mildly. I can see that, there are things I enjoy somewhat but am not committed to beyond a couple of token investments. This isn't a guy who is applying for a C&R any time soon, and just doesn't get excited or at least interested when you talk about your old Webley.

He thinks I'm a gun nut. But only because he's yet to meet a real gun nut.

I'm telling you that to give you perspective. His irons of choice are an XD9 and a Winchester 1300 Defender. I can't help but admit I had a hand in those choices...

Yeah I know, no .22.

Anyway, now he wants a rifle. I gave him the pat answer to get a .22 caliber rifle, because honestly if I was only going to have one rifle, that'd be it. And in his situation, I can actually agree with his other choices for social work.

Anyway I think I've talked him into getting a 10/22 for its own sake, but he's still interested in that Holy Grail of all purpose rifles. I told him that was all well and good, but the fact of the matter was an all purpose rifle by its very nature is going to be lacking somewhat when it comes to specific applications due to its very nature. He refined his criteria and sent me a PM detailing what he wanted it for and why.

So here we go.

-Basic format is a self loading rifle that uses a detachable box magazine.

-"Normal" chambering. Think .223 or .30-06 or something else relatively common, in a light to middle of the road round. .204 Ruger or .458 Lott chambering need apply for instance.

-$500 hard upper price limit. He might budge on this a little. He's got money if he'll just save it.

-Synthetic furniture preferred

-No milsurps or "mainstream military format" rifles (not sure what that means but I can guess). That right there makes things difficult.

-Modern, new production rifle with widely available parts/accessories.

-Optics may be considered at some point but not yet.

-Intended purpose: Mostly fun, 200 yards and less target shooting, Katrina aftermath type scenario

Now I can tell you what he likes... he likes black evil looking guns that could feasibly be used as props in a Matrix movie. That's his style.

I thought about it and gave a couple of non recommendations that break one or more criteria, like the SKS, or an AK47 clone with synthetic furniture, etc.

The only thing I could really think of that seemed along his criteria was the Remington 7400 in .308 or .30-06 with the synthetic furniture. I've seen them in the $450ish range. It meets all the criteria.

Later I thought perhaps the SU-16 Alpha might be in that price range, but thing is I don't have full confidence in either of these suggestions.

I had also considered telling him to check into a pistol caliber carbine of some sort. There should be something in his price range and since he really just wants something fun that could be used to fend off crazed looters and rioters in a pinch, it might make sense for him.

It's an interesting mental excercise, honestly. I think if he could find one an SKS-D would please him to no end, but he doesn't want an SKS or AK47 type format so it's back to square one.
 

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Hmmm - the restrictions narrow the field almost too much. It's the ''semi'' bit that makes for prob's.

I have yet to come up with a suggestion but feel that Class3 or rfurtcamp between them might expand the options a bit.
 

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Ok............how bout a Remington 7615P 223 Special Purpose ...........(looks like a 7600) carbine length.........can also utilize the M16 type mag..if need be.. pump, so there's no wasting of ammo.......
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7615.htm

7600 is available in 308 as well same basic config:
http://www.remingtonle.com/rifles/7600.htm

BTW.......we sell em ........AND I've handled em......they look and feel REAL GOOD in the hands..
 

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Sounds like your friend and I are searching for the same rifle.

I've narrowed it down to either building a decent little SKS, no heavy mods, and I don't expect it to be a tack driver.

A Saiga .308

or a Remington 7600

I wish Keltec made the SU in a 308 or 7.62, I'd buy three of them.
 

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I was going to suggest a Siaga 7.62x39 rifle, but we have trouble with them. They seem to find their way back to the store, via repair for FTF or FTE problems.. There is a nice 410 made by Siaga, seems to work really well........good close quarters gun, for indoor use.. or shoot 410 slugs (41 cal slug) for outdoor use
 

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As I read the specs, I thought of the Remington 7400 also. That would be my recommendation. Good luck.
 

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Nothing I can think of given his specific list of requirements.

I'd look at regular ol' AK, possibly in .223, if he wants something in that price range.
 

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If he wants a evil , black rifle but no mil. guns, seems like he doesn't know what he wants. SKS's and such are cheap, and you can put em in diffrent poly stocks and such. The Kel tec seems like a decent .223.
 

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Euc,

IMO, a .308 bolt action (reliable, versatile, and lot of ammo choices) in something like the Howa 1500 Hbar, Remington 700 HBar, or Savage 10 in HBar. Good shooters all and I believe all come in synthetic stocks (black or dark grey). The detachable magazine requirement ups the price though...
 

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Euclidean said:
Now I can tell you what he likes... he likes black evil looking guns that could feasibly be used as props in a Matrix movie. That's his style.
http://www.sarcoinc.com/guns14-4.html

Couple bills more, but that's it to a "T". No gas system. Mags are $2-$8 (alloy or steel, many still NIW). Over the lifetime of the rifle, headspacing can be user maintained with Autozone metric feeler gauges, and a $8 replacement roller set. KISS. Do I think PTR is better than Century, etc., the "other G3 clones", that can be had for $300? YES!! I had to sell my 91, recently, and I am actually feeling better about being able to get a new JLD, in place of the used 91.:wave:

One more edit: here's a link to the JLD site, with much better pics than the SARCO ad, along with all the goodies that JLD offers. If he decides to go this route, let me know, I have several other links for really good parts and accessory prices. http://www.jldenter.com/index.html

Economically, and for basic functionality, the Rem 7000 series are excellent. But. If he likesthe Mil-style, and this is likely to be his "one-and-only" for quite a long time, JLD is the best bang for the buck. The AK/SKS series are functional and durable, as well, but these (JLD)are in a different league altogether.(Not to mention being in a real caliber....)
 

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+1 on the remington pumps , his manual of arms would not be dissimilar to the winchester shotgun that way ( allways a concern for the " uninthusiast"
 

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A point re the 7600 - which I had not thought of.

Bob - I have the 760 - and have heard that the 7600 was never as good as the earlier model. What are your thoughts? I like mine a lot - very totable and it is pretty much and always has been my #1 deer rifle - this one is in .308.


 

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Chris...........The 760 is a great rifle.........the 7600 supposely had some improvments, however, both models fair very well under any circumstances........I was thinking the newer 7600 Police model had some features that could be useful in either hunting or a protection capability. (the 20-30 rnd AR/M16 mag option)
We also have some CETME rifles in 308.......they look just like the HK91 series.........but are 425.00 something to think about as well.....
 

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Thx Bob - oh my - be nice to have use of large mags!!

The impression I had had - tho never proven was, the 7600 ''improvements'' - weren't LOL! Anyways, love the 760. :smile:
 

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Ill give a second vote for the Mini 14 or 30. I myself am not a huge fan of the Ruger Mini. 3.5" grps doesn’t excite me.

$500 limit is tough, for a semi-auto. Unless ya can get him to buy an A.K.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks guys, I took all your suggestions and made a "strict" list and then a "I really think you should go this way instead but do what you want" list.

The Rem 7615 may be the ticket even though it doesn't strictly mesh with what he asked for. I personally think it's a great idea for a rifle, and although the model with the collapsible stock looks like crap to me, I think it's right up his alley. He doesn't mind the pump action shotgun after all.

I will send him some URLs for the various pistol caliber carbines. I suspect he may like that idea too... too bad they don't make one that'll take XD mags!

I told him his reqs. were just too tough for the most part, and even if his budget was higher they're still tough because what he's looking for is a military format rifle if he wants evil and black. A self loading magazine fed rifle in a good centerfire caliber, even if it's just for fun, just costs money.
 

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Does it have to be new? A used BAR might fit his criteria, if you got a good deal on one maybe...or one of the Century CETME's perhaps?
 

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CETMEs have been gone for a while. Touching them and finding a good one under $500 is getting hard.
 

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rfurtkamp said:
CETMEs have been gone for a while. Touching them and finding a good one under $500 is getting hard.
Randy.....we have several for about 425.00 to 450.00 wood and synthetic... PM me and I'll give you more info...........
Bob
 
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