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Most encounters with LEOs when you are carrying with a permit are uneventful, this one.....not so much :boese51:. Read on.....:bier:

CalCCW - View Single Post - 1st LEO encounter

Last Saturday am, pulled over in Glendora by CHP, informed officer as I was handing over license and CCW, next thing I know my son and I are standing on the sidewalk (after I was frisked) and within minutes we have four units lined up. They can't decide what to do...insistent that I can not carry "loaded", the supervisor (fourth unit to show up) states he is "very uncomfortable" with the fact that I have two loaded weapons, one in the map pocket of the driver's door....but 45 minutes later (after numerous cell phone and radio conversations, out of my hearing range) they unload my guns, put them in the trunk, and tell me to "make sure I can carry loaded".
Missed my daughter's soccer game, and watched my 11 year old son cry (thinking they were going to arrest me, as they stated they "have every right to do"). Luckily, I kept my cool, but I was also very clear that I was licensed to carry LOADED.
SBCSD called the CHP office a few days later to ensure them of the fact that I can carry loaded. Very uncomfortable situation with an OK ending.
I don't know about you but I think this guy deserves a medal for patience and tolerance. I would have been smoking hot and probably would have gotten myself arrested. I have a verrrrrrrrrrrry difficult time dealing with incompetence.
 

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Wow, that's horrible! I agree, I would have had a hard time dealing with those officers, especially with my child going through that.

Chalk it up to one of the many reasons I won't ever live in Kahlifornia!
 

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I am shocked by the fact that many police officers do not know the law. I have 2 friends that are police officers and I occasionally ask them specific questions about the law and they never have and answer. I know that cops are not lawyers or judges but it seems like this stuff is basic.
 

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I have never understood why people that post on these boards feel the need to hand the police information that they can use to make your life miserable. I have met very few police officers that were pro carry. The majority I have met have gone out of their way to discourage it, generally W/ the attitude that it makes their job harder. I’ve had them tell me I’m required to inform on contact (false). That I need a permit to carry a firearm in my vehicle (False) and that I need a permit to leave my home W/ a firearm (false).

As a general rule I find the less information I give the police the better it works for me If they ask if I’m armed I tell them but not before.

And if that makes me an evil cop basher so be it
 

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I have never understood why people that post on these boards feel the need to hand the police information that they can use to make your life miserable. I have met very few police officers that were pro carry. The majority I have met have gone out of their way to discourage it, generally W/ the attitude that it makes their job harder. I’ve had them tell me I’m required to inform on contact (false). That I need a permit to carry a firearm in my vehicle (False) and that I need a permit to leave my home W/ a firearm (false).

As a general rule I find the less information I give the police the better it works for me If they ask if I’m armed I tell them but not before.

And if that makes me an evil cop basher so be it
If all these instances are from Colorado, it just means there could be something lacking in the training of the LEO's...

I guess, it depends what part of the country you live in... Here in TX, you must notify on a traffic stop...I would say the majority of LEO's are pro-carry...All of them I know are and I worked for the 3rd largest sheriff's dept. in the country...
 

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Praying for you poor souls in the south blok of the kali republik.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
If all these instances are from Colorado, it just means there could be something lacking in the training of the LEO's...

I guess, it depends what part of the country you live in... Here in TX, you must notify on a traffic stop...I would say the majority of LEO's are pro-carry...All of them I know are and I worked for the 3rd largest sheriff's dept. in the country...
True. In California it is not a requirement but the Sheriff of a specific county can make notification on contact with LEO a condition of issuance. I would have to say that the contact in the OP is very rare (like I said, MOST are uneventful). Just goes to show that even if you think you are GTG you can run into something TOTALLY off the wall. I also agree that most LEOs are pro-carry, ESPECIALLY those who participate on pro-carry forum. :smile:
 

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We don't need to inform in Ga, but I think I would just to show respect for the situation. If the LEO turns out to be Barney Fife, I'll deal with the guff because in the end I know I'll be leaving with my pistols and heading on my way. Nothing that a call to the station and some conversations with the chain of command can't address.

IMO, you meet all kinds of folks in our travels, some can be snots, but some are good folks and worth the effort.

GBK
 

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Bothers me that they are state patrol, not just someone who wasn't interested in things outside some smaller jurisdiction

the premise ("congrats, yes, you have the sherriff's permission to carry an unloaded firearm for self-defense") is really close in principle to what ticked Mr Heller off

so, only CI gang members are authorized to carry 'loaded' firearms?

my guess is that there was one under-informed officer who made the stop and three more cars who wanted to save face by intimidating
 

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Bothers me that they are state patrol, not just someone who wasn't interested in things outside some smaller jurisdiction

the premise ("congrats, yes, you have the sherriff's permission to carry an unloaded firearm for self-defense") is really close in principle to what ticked Mr Heller off

so, only CI gang members are authorized to carry 'loaded' firearms?

my guess is that there was one under-informed officer who made the stop and three more cars who wanted to save face by intimidating
+1, I believe you are on to something there.
 

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If all these instances are from Colorado, it just means there could be something lacking in the training of the LEO's
They are and training cops isn’t my job


I worked for the 3rd largest sheriff's dept. in the country...
There ya have it

Sounds like harassment to me. If they could have arrested him they would have.
One of the reasons I don’t answer questions I’m not required to answer. I’m required to present DL/ REG/POI I’m required to present permit on demand. Beyond that the cop doesn’t need to know where I’m headed to tonight, doesn’t need where I came from to night and doesn’t need to know if I have any: guns, bombs, bazookas, drugs, samurai. Swords, needles or anything else that he needs to know about in my vehicle tonight. That question always gets a resounding “Officer I do not consent to any searches. Am I free to go?”
 

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As a former LEO from California I can attest that much of this has to do with the convoluted permitting process. Each county within the state can establish their own stipulations for the permit holders. It’s utterly ridiculous and creates the exact situation you experienced. The LEO’s simply can’t keep up with whom is allowed to do what. This is especially the case with CHP officers who may be transferred throughout the State.
Regards,
Dan
 

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Yo Treo...

Do you really think that the officer cares where you are going,what you are doing or how many shoes you have in your closet?

He dosent. As he speaks to you, he is interviewing you and that is the way that officers evaluate you. Some officers do the small talk thing, to set you at ease,they may even ask you the same question a few different ways to see how you respond.

Beleive it or not, it works well to sort out the good guys from the riff-raff.

The guy that was stopped by the cops didnt get mad and refuse to answer questions, he kept his calm and insisted that he was in the right. The cops,being less than 100 percent on the subject, callled their sources to see if he was correct. Because he acted rationally and spoke well, they let him go. I'd bet that if he acted the jerk or just clammed up and refused to answer the questions, they would have arrested him and let his laywer and the attorneys settle the matter. Is it a perfect solution? We know that it's not. Is it a training issue? It is. At least that issue has been brought to their attention and it is very possible that the training issue may be acted upon so that everyone is clear with it the next time out.

Even though he may have been technically right, it could have cost him a small fortune and probably taken a long time, maybe even years to get the point across after he sued them for harrasment.

Sometimes just a little bit of communication goes a long way in a situation like this.

Should you have to communicate? Not really. You can assert your right to say nothing and it may work or it may complicate things.

Thats the reality of it and its your call.
 

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As a former LEO from California I can attest that much of this has to do with the convoluted permitting process. Each county within the state can establish their own stipulations for the permit holders. It’s utterly ridiculous and creates the exact situation you experienced. The LEO’s simply can’t keep up with whom is allowed to do what. This is especially the case with CHP officers who may be transferred throughout the State.
Regards,
Dan
100% correct.
The permits don't even look the same from county to county,,
But.....there is no excuse for a California LEO not knowing that a citizen does has the "right" to carry a loaded concealed firearm with a permit. There are enough permits out here now where it is much more likely for an LEO to run across someone who has one and they need to know how to handle things.
 

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my guess is that there was one under-informed officer who made the stop and three more cars who wanted to save face by intimidating
Or it could be that they showed up to discuss the matter. It happens all the time and it happens everywhere. Some guys are more "up" on some laws than others. If they are close by, they'll show up and talk rather than tie up the radio.

And the guy did have a gun.Since they were unclear with the situation, its better to have more officers than not enough if the situation goes south. While you may know that it wont, they dont.
 

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100% correct.
The permits don't even look the same from county to county,,
But.....there is no excuse for a California LEO not knowing that a citizen does has the "right" to carry a loaded concealed firearm with a permit. There are enough permits out here now where it is much more likely for an LEO to run across someone who has one and they need to know how to handle things.

I'd bet that if you come from a county that issues permits to everyone, that the cops there are more easy about it. On the other hand, if you go to a county that its virtually impossible to get one unless you are a gazillionair or a movie star, the cops reaction to a permit will be much different.

It sucks but thats the way it is.

"Shall Issue" states dont have these problems.
If California ever became a "shall issue" state, it would solve a whole lot of problems and the people in California would have the same right to self protection as most of the other states in this country.
 

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No longer a penalty for failure to notify in Texas...........

I guess, it depends what part of the country you live in... Here in TX, you must notify on a traffic stop...I would say the majority of LEO's are pro-carry...All of them I know are and I worked for the 3rd largest sheriff's dept. in the country...
As of Sept 1, 2009 - In Texas, HB2730 – Removed DPS authority to suspend a concealed handgun license (CHL) for the holder’s failure to display the CHL to a peace officer on demand. It removes associated penalties and suspensions for the failure to display.

No longer a penalty for failure to notify in Texas, but I will still do it. I see no reason to piss a LEO off!
:argue:
 

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I agree with HotGuns here, and think that the big lesson is not to give the stink eye to the cops when they give you a hard time. Be polite and respectful and it will serve you best, especially with a volatile issue like firearms.

I had a brother-in-law who was an LEO, and his basic rule was if someone was polite, respectful and honest he would go out of his way to accommodate that person. If not, then their life got harder. LEO don't have to deal with the law-abiding public much, having most of their time occupied by people who lie to them and try to get around them and work them over. Plus they never know on any given traffic stop if they are going to get shot at! (Here in AZ there are different challenges that deal with immigration issues too...but that will get political in a hurry)

So the lesson as I see it here is that the guy did the right thing. It was better to stay cool, state his case calmly and professionally, be kind and helpful and miss his daughter's soccer game. The alternative was spending the night in the pokie and getting to pay a lot of attorney's fees to eventually have the whole thing dropped in court.

Hmmm...45 minutes of hassle or months of hassle...let me think about it a little!

Of course like HotGuns said, in shall issue states this would not be a problem. But if you live in CA and you get a permit, then expect the occasional hassle (and perhaps get a copy of the applicable state and county statutes and keep them in the car for just such an emergency!)
 

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Notification, etc.

I have never understood why people that post on these boards feel the need to hand the police information that they can use to make your life miserable. I have met very few police officers that were pro carry. The majority I have met have gone out of their way to discourage it, generally W/ the attitude that it makes their job harder. I’ve had them tell me I’m required to inform on contact (false). That I need a permit to carry a firearm in my vehicle (False) and that I need a permit to leave my home W/ a firearm (false).

As a general rule I find the less information I give the police the better it works for me If they ask if I’m armed I tell them but not before.

And if that makes me an evil cop basher so be it
In some states (such as Ohio) notification during an official encounter with a LEO if you are armed at the time is required. And if the LEO happens to have a computer with access to LEADS, MARKS, or other CAD programs, the fact that you have a concealed carry permit is flagged. It's attached to both your vehicle registration and drivers license. Stupid? Maybe. I think it gives a false sense of security to some LEO's who are anti CCP. I've been stopped twice while armed and have had no problem. I notified as required and did not (as you wisely indicate) volunteer any information. Nor did I enter into conversation with the officer. I tried to be as "professional" in my demeanor as I expected from the LEO. If the question could be answered by a "yes" or "no", that's the way it was answered. Babbling raises a red flag to many LEO's.

On the other hand, in working with Law Enforcement Agencies all over the Eastern US, I've found that the more informed the officer the more a proponent of concealed carry. I found that the vast majority of LEO's were in favor of concealed carry but also encouraged proper training. But like any other facet of society the roughly 20% of the "bad" guys get 80% of the press.
 
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