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In another section I had this ??? asked of me. So, I felt that I would reply here so others could comment.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...olsters-carry-options/84879-kilt-carry-6.html

Originally Posted by puffer View Post
I just noticed a "CRITICAL ERROR", IMHO, in the "load out" of my sporran. The WALLET with the GUN. IMHO, that is a NO NO !!!

Puffer
Why?

One of the Items I always cover when I Train others in "concealed carry" is where you should carry your ID/money etc, in relation to your firearm. My advise is carry your ID as follows
1. If your gun is carried in a holster ( hip, back, shoulder etc ) then carry your ID etc in such a location that when you go for it ( ID etc ), you DO NOT expose your gun or "give the impression" that you are going for your gun.

2. If you carry "off body" ( a purse, briefcase, sporran ( as pictured etc. either carry your ID separate, or be SURE that when you access your ID, $$$ etc, your gun is NOT exposed.

WHY ???

There are MANY reasons, but here are some thoughts.

1. Public reaction = Neg. & possibility legal.
Recent real occurrence - I was in a supermarket line & a man in front of me went to pay for his items. Suddenly the cashier turned white & SCREAMED. It seems that when he went for his wallet (in his rear pocket ) He not only exposed his cocked & locked 1911, but his hand swept right by it. ( I know, but what would you think if you were the cashier ?? ) Thankfully the man had the presence of mind to realize what had happened & placed his hands ( empty ) on the counter & calmly explained that he meant no trouble.It calmed down the cashier ( & us ) but the story was not over. Store security came up & got "involved" What a mess. Again, thankfully there was a "heads up " off duty LEO on scene & he took over. NOTE- HE did give the man a "short polite lecture" ( Basically, He was lucky in that the cashier & the store did not want want to press it farther. Could they have YES. In WA St. this "technically" would be under the category of "incidental exposure" of a concealed pistol" & not "technically" illegal" BUT, there is a "KICKER" there is a LAW called "INTIMIDATION" = If you draw attention to your pistol, either by action or verbally in a "PERCEIVED" threatening manner ( the KEY WORD is PERCEIVED" ) then you can be arrested & @ the very least have to appear in court :aaa:

2. POLICE - When asked for ID, not a good idea to even move towards your gun when going for your ID. (there is a long story of how I personally learned this lesson over 40 years ago :twak:) I recommend that you keep your hands in plain sight, tell the LEO that you are armed ( DO NOT SAY the word GUN), tell the LEO where your firearm is & where your ID is & ask how to proceed.

Puffer
 

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If you carry your wallet on your strong side you should reach back and up under your cover garment to your back pocket. You could also carry the wallet in a front pocket. You should always be aware of exposing while carrying. I am suspicious of the reason for sweeping the cover garment back while reaching for a wallet, I always suspect it is to show the firearm, just my opinion.
 

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Wallet with armed secuirty guard state id on one side and pistol permit on the other side in left front pocket for easy reach with support hand. Pistol IWB at 3:30-4:00 on right side
 

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I had a little trouble following the OP's train of thought, but I think the thread is about using extra caution to not expose while carrying??

I always carry my wallet in my back right pocket directly below my carry rig. Every time I reach for it, shirt stays down, wallet comes out, no problems in the few thousand times I have performed the maneuver.

I would carry my wallet in a front pocket, but after my cell phone, keys, OC, Knife, Pen, I really have run out of room and it would be extremely inconvenient placing it in the front. When I travel and am in high risk pick-pocketing situation, I have special cargo pants that have zippered thigh compartments.

2. POLICE - When asked for ID, not a good idea to even move towards your gun when going for your ID. (there is a long story of how I personally learned this lesson over 40 years ago :twak:) I recommend that you keep your hands in plain sight, tell the LEO that you are armed ( DO NOT SAY the word GUN), tell the LEO where your firearm is & where your ID is & ask how to proceed.
I don't understand this mentality at all, even though I have seen a few people on the forum talking about how this is your preferred method. This seems to me that you are giving the officer too much information that he doesn't need at that moment, and he doesn't know that you have a firearm with you. If I was OCing in the car and the officer could see it, I would then handle it this way . . . but seems unnecessary with concealed carry.

Every time I have been pulled over, after initial greetings the LEO asks for license and registration. At this time I reach into my wallet (shirt is down over the rig the entire time, no way for the officer to see) and grab both my Driver's License and CHL, then hand them to him first. He asks if I have it (always) and where it is (on my right hip sir) . . . I then tell him that my registration is in the glove compartment and is it okay if I reach in there?

Every LEO interaction during a traffic stop has gone EXTREMELY well for me, and one officer even went out of his way to thank me how I kept my hands on the wheel and acted in such a safe manner. I told the LEO: "Yeah, I bet it makes you nervous when you pull someone over and they go digging around in their glove compartment before you come up to the vehicle." He replied: "Yep, it sure does."

The day an officer flips out on me and yells: "DID YOU JUST REACH NEAR YOUR FIREARM TO GET YOUR WALLET AND YOU DIDN'T TELL ME FIRST!!!" . . . I might change my approach. Till then a simple handing over the CHL when asked for ID seems the easiest approach for me.
 

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I had a little trouble following the OP's train of thought, but I think the thread is about using extra caution to not expose while carrying??

I always carry my wallet in my back right pocket directly below my carry rig. Every time I reach for it, shirt stays down, wallet comes out, no problems in the few thousand times I have performed the maneuver.

I would carry my wallet in a front pocket, but after my cell phone, keys, OC, Knife, Pen, I really have run out of room and it would be extremely inconvenient placing it in the front. When I travel and am in high risk pick-pocketing situation, I have special cargo pants that have zippered thigh compartments.



I don't understand this mentality at all, even though I have seen a few people on the forum talking about how this is your preferred method. This seems to me that you are giving the officer too much information that he doesn't need at that moment, and he doesn't know that you have a firearm with you. If I was OCing in the car and the officer could see it, I would then handle it this way . . . but seems unnecessary with concealed carry.

Every time I have been pulled over, after initial greetings the LEO asks for license and registration. At this time I reach into my wallet (shirt is down over the rig the entire time, no way for the officer to see) and grab both my Driver's License and CHL, then hand them to him first. He asks if I have it (always) and where it is (on my right hip sir) . . . I then tell him that my registration is in the glove compartment and is it okay if I reach in there?

Every LEO interaction during a traffic stop has gone EXTREMELY well for me, and one officer even went out of his way to thank me how I kept my hands on the wheel and acted in such a safe manner. I told the LEO: "Yeah, I bet it makes you nervous when you pull someone over and they go digging around in their glove compartment before you come up to the vehicle." He replied: "Yep, it sure does."

The day an officer flips out on me and yells: "DID YOU JUST REACH NEAR YOUR FIREARM TO GET YOUR WALLET AND YOU DIDN'T TELL ME FIRST!!!" . . . I might change my approach. Till then a simple handing over the CHL when asked for ID seems the easiest approach for me.
In some states, (such as NC), failing to inform verbally immediately upon being approached by LEO is a violation of the permit law. Handing your CHP to him with your license DOES NOT stisfy the notifcation requirement here.

Additionally, outside of a vehicle, if an LEO were to ask me for ID and saw my firearm as I went for my wallet (strong side back pocket), it could get ugly quick if the LEO got a glimpse of hte gun and somehow felt I was going for it.

By announcing the presence of the firearm verbally and the location of the wallet with a request for direction from the officer, has, in my experience, made th LEO slow down and THINK, before he reacts to anything.
 

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I think that my fashion of carrying both firearm and wallet is a simple solution to this problem. I carry IWB right side on or behind the hip. I carry my wallet left side back pocket. My shirt never comes up on the right side except for the half an inch to get my car keys out of my right front pocket. Of course, maybe thats the wrong place to keep my car keys. Either way, my shirt NEVER comes up high enough for someone to see. Only time my shirt comes up is while I am in my vehicle. Nothing worse than the idea of fighting a shirt that is bound down by your seat belt while drawing your firearm.
 

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In some states, (such as NC), failing to inform verbally immediately upon being approached by LEO is a violation of the permit law. Handing your CHP to him with your license DOES NOT stisfy the notifcation requirement here.
Yes, thank you. I should have said I don't understand this mentality in states where it is not a requirement to verbally tell an approaching officer.

I still don't understand why people would choose a rig whose concealment would be compromised by simply reaching in a common pocket??? :scruntiny:
 

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Prior to concealed carry, and since I am right-handed, I always carried my wallet in my right side back pocket. Since I typically carry OWB at roughly 4-o'clock, the holster naturally interferes with wallet retrieval as well as risking exposure of my firearm. Therefore, when I started to carry a concealed firearm, I switched my wallet to the left side back pocket. In addition to no longer risking exposure of my firearm during retrieval, it has the advantage of allowing me to (quite naturally) turn my left side toward a BG in an encounter while simultaneously concealing my strong side as I draw my firearm. My stance is also now in a fighting position for protection.

-Seawolf
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I offer the "advice" for 2 major reasons.
1. General situations.= although most of us who carry, are careful about "flashing" we all have "brain lapses" & things happen as I posted.( I firmly believe the man in my example, DID NOT INTEND to show his gun. It Just happened. (Murphy's Law) So why not make it harder on the S*B to embarrass us ??

As to the LEO situation, I am an ex LEO so therefor I am BIASED in this area.
1. Unless the LEO is "brain dead" He/She is approaching every stop ( street or vehicle) on at least "yellow alert"
2. Street stop = Even if you feel that you are VERY good @ concealing that you armed, ( & most are not) the LEO ( if competent ) is going to be watching you carefully. So why not do the LEO a courtesy & "ratchet down the "stress level" by letting the LEO know the situation ???
3. Traffic Stops = IMHO, is "pucker time" ( or should be for the LEO )
I have my own "ritual", but basically Present you DL & CWP & put both hands on the steering wheel. Notify the LEO you are carrying & where & ask for directions.

I know some will say "I do Not have to do this", but I say, put yourself in the LEO's shoes.

Puffer
 

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NOTE- HE did give the man a "short polite lecture" ( Basically, He was lucky in that the cashier & the store did not want want to press it farther. Could they have YES. In WA St. this "technically" would be under the category of "incidental exposure" of a concealed pistol" & not "technically" illegal" BUT, there is a "KICKER" there is a LAW called "INTIMIDATION" = If you draw attention to your pistol, either by action or verbally in a "PERCEIVED" threatening manner ( the KEY WORD is PERCEIVED" ) then you can be arrested & @ the very least have to appear in court :aaa:

Puffer
What do you do in the case of changing from concealed to open carry?
I think the more apt rule is the reasonable person would consider it a threat. a flash when getting your wallet would not qualify.

Just where was the INTENT in your above example?


RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.

(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.
 

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My right hand has nerve/muscle damage,so I use left hand for everything,my gun is never exposed when pulling my wallet out,and if I need to show LEO my ID I will state I have a gun on my left hip and I need to get my wallet out of my left rear pocket is that okay
 

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Creds Wallet is in the rear pocket opposite the gun.

The "normal" wallet is in the rear pocket the same as the gun. I do this so that if I ever need to draw my gun off duty I can also access my ID while still holding my gun. Not to derail the thread, but my cell phone is carried more midline, and can be accessed by either hand, much like my radio mic.

Very good topic and one that I'm sure many people haven't considered.

Biker
 

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I carry a 'paper thin' leather money clip with $$ and 4 pieces of ID. This is in my rear 'weak-side pocket. My ID and my firearm never have to see each other, but I can access both at the same time.:image035:
 

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When I am wearing jeans (about 95% of the time) I keep my wallet and OC in my front left pocket with a knife clipped to the inside of the pocket. Keys are clipped to the belt loop at 11:00. I carry a pen in my back right pocket, a small pen knife and chapstick in my front right pocket. My cell phone and a spare magazine are on my belt at 8-8:30 and my gun is at 3:30-4 in a OWB holster.
 

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I carry my wallet in my right rear pocket and my gun on the left side. That way there isn't a chance of anyone getting a glimpse of my gun.
 

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In another section I had this ??? asked of me. So, I felt that I would reply here so others could comment.

http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbull...olsters-carry-options/84879-kilt-carry-6.html

Originally Posted by puffer View Post
I just noticed a "CRITICAL ERROR", IMHO, in the "load out" of my sporran. The WALLET with the GUN. IMHO, that is a NO NO !!!

Puffer
Why?

One of the Items I always cover when I Train others in "concealed carry" is where you should carry your ID/money etc, in relation to your firearm. My advise is carry your ID as follows
1. If your gun is carried in a holster ( hip, back, shoulder etc ) then carry your ID etc in such a location that when you go for it ( ID etc ), you DO NOT expose your gun or "give the impression" that you are going for your gun.

2. If you carry "off body" ( a purse, briefcase, sporran ( as pictured etc. either carry your ID separate, or be SURE that when you access your ID, $$$ etc, your gun is NOT exposed.

WHY ???

There are MANY reasons, but here are some thoughts.

1. Public reaction = Neg. & possibility legal.
Recent real occurrence - I was in a supermarket line & a man in front of me went to pay for his items. Suddenly the cashier turned white & SCREAMED. It seems that when he went for his wallet (in his rear pocket ) He not only exposed his cocked & locked 1911, but his hand swept right by it. ( I know, but what would you think if you were the cashier ?? ) Thankfully the man had the presence of mind to realize what had happened & placed his hands ( empty ) on the counter & calmly explained that he meant no trouble.It calmed down the cashier ( & us ) but the story was not over. Store security came up & got "involved" What a mess. Again, thankfully there was a "heads up " off duty LEO on scene & he took over. NOTE- HE did give the man a "short polite lecture" ( Basically, He was lucky in that the cashier & the store did not want want to press it farther. Could they have YES. In WA St. this "technically" would be under the category of "incidental exposure" of a concealed pistol" & not "technically" illegal" BUT, there is a "KICKER" there is a LAW called "INTIMIDATION" = If you draw attention to your pistol, either by action or verbally in a "PERCEIVED" threatening manner ( the KEY WORD is PERCEIVED" ) then you can be arrested & @ the very least have to appear in court :aaa:

2. POLICE - When asked for ID, not a good idea to even move towards your gun when going for your ID. (there is a long story of how I personally learned this lesson over 40 years ago :twak:) I recommend that you keep your hands in plain sight, tell the LEO that you are armed ( DO NOT SAY the word GUN), tell the LEO where your firearm is & where your ID is & ask how to proceed.

Puffer
I usually use a Stillwater Cargo Sporran. It is nylon and has several different pockets, one of which is specifically designed to carry a small handgun such as a Kel-tec, or Ruger .380. My Colt detectective special fits in that pocket(barely). My wallet with my ID and CCW permit are carried in the main pocket. Here is the link. It says 9mm, but most nines seem too big to me, unless you carry it in the main compartment and put your ID, CCW credit cards and cash in the smaller one. Anyhow, it does allow access to your ID and permit without exposing your handgun. I believe that they have a leather model also.

Stillwater Kilts Nylon Cargo Sporran: SWK-SPRN-NS1 Stillwater Kilts Web Store
 

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Opposite sides

Since I have always carried a larger pocket knife (S&W SWAT) I carry it in my right back pocket and my wallet in the left rear. When I began carrying, I keep it 3-4:30 depending on pants, and either IWB or OWB. Now it feels perfectly normal to have the wallet on the left.
 

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Here's a case where I think women have a slight advantage. I can usually carry my ID off-body - I have a purse. The purse sits between the van seats on my right (when driving) or I carry it on my right shoulder (when not driving). My cell phone is clipped to my belt on my right hip. My voice recorder is in my right front pocket. My Ladysmith rides just in front of my left hip (appendix carry, usually OWB).

On those occasions where I'm not carrying a purse, such as when I'm out walking with my neighbor, I put my DL, CHP, medical card, a credit card, my house key, and a couple of bucks in a small MP3 case which I hang around my neck and slip under my cover shirt, and still have phone on the right hip, Ladysmith on left. In case of emergency, my neighbor knows where everything is (I have some weird medical things on occasion, so I'm overly cautious on this).

When I carry, the ONLY thing on my left is the Ladysmith. No danger of having a hand pass near en route to ID that way.
 
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