I believe you are right. Since the transfer is crossing state lines, you'll have to go through a FFL dealer. Most dealers around here only charge $20 to $30 for the fee. Depending on the state, some may require payment for the background check. If you have CCW permit, they may waive the background check fee.

 

I would have it transferred FFL to FFL. I do believe it is the law. What part of the state are you in? I may be able to help you out. I have several friends with FFL.

 

The transaction does not have to occur FFL to FFL. Only one FFL is required. For a handgun that FFL must be in the recipient's state of residence. For a long gun, that FFL may generally be in either the giver's state or the recipient's state of residence.

 

Not wanting the BATFE to even question any sidearm purchase or sale, I would always go through the closest FFL to the transaction...$25 is pretty cheap to keep it all above board.:yup:

 

Yeah. You gotta go through a FFL Dealer per Big Brother's request.

 

She does not have to use a FFL, but you cannot receive the gun, and therefore a FL from your state must receve and transfer the gun to you.

Regards,
Jerry

 

??? If she gives it to him in one state (or sells it to him for buck) and he carries it home, why does he need a FFL? I realize that shipping has to be done to a FFL, but I wasn't aware that a face-to-face private sale to a person from another state might be a problem. Help me here...

== added ==

Nevermind - I was only familar with same-state transfers. Here's what ATF says:

From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

-----

May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

--------

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

(from http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3)

 

Sidebar: I’m not up on this FFL thing’ but I would love to know how this may protect me, if I were to sell a gun here on line. Does the process officially change the ownership from me to you, so I can sleep better at night?
Regards,

 

If you sell a gun online, have the buyer find a dealer you can ship it to and for the $25 or so fee that dealer will do the paperwork to transfer it to the buyer at his end.

In this situation, the easiest thing would be for the daughter to find the gun at a shop in your state, pay for it, then you go pick it up and fill out the paperwork when you do.

 

...In this situation, the easiest thing would be for the daughter to find the gun at a shop in your state, pay for it, then you go pick it up and fill out the paperwork when you do.

I'm available if she wants to practice this first.

 

this MAY be considered a straw purchase and that could get both parties in hot water.

I would use a FFL to be clean and safe.

STRAW PURCHASE
"the term is best understood within the context of United States federal gun laws, whereby a straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not."

 

• The 'send a check to a dealer in the recipient's state' is clean, as the recipient is the one filling out the background check paperwork at the dealer's.
• Buying in the giver's state and handing him the gun, saying, "This will be yours as soon as I ship it to an FFL in your state" is also clean (again, the recipient is the one filling out the paperwork).
• Giving or selling face-to-face IF YOU BOTH LIVE IN THE SAME STATE is also clean (assumes he's able to own a firearm).
• Her living in one state and him living in another state? Illegal (see ATF quotes, above).

Gotta get an FFL to put it in his hands in his state, ultimately.

A straw purchase is where one person approaches another and gives him or her cash to make the purchase (so #2 is acting as #1's agent or proxy), while buying as a gift is different - it's a free act on the giver's part rather than a proxy relationship. But the issue here is the state border, not who is purchasing.

-from Paymeister (Mr. Henmeister), who hijacked the computer.

 

There is no problem in most states with a face to face exchange weither cash sale or gift.

 

Gift? Inheritance?

So am I to understand one can not purchase a firearm as a gift for another person?

How would it affect an inheritance? Someone leaves you their firearms or family want to get rid of some of their collection?

I would assume a recently purchased "new" pistol may need to be done through an FFL, though I disagree if one law abiding citizen purchases a gift for another? What about husband for wife or wife for husband, dad for son etc...?

Could you not just register it somehow in your name or would that have to be done by an FFL?

 

So am I to understand one can not purchase a firearm as a gift for another person?

How would it affect an inheritance? Someone leaves you their firearms or family want to get rid of some of their collection?

I would assume a recently purchased "new" pistol may need to be done through an FFL, though I disagree if one law abiding citizen purchases a gift for another? What about husband for wife or wife for husband, dad for son etc...?

Could you not just register it somehow in your name or would that have to be done by an FFL?

As for an inheritance, the BATF rules/law permits that in the case of a bequeathed gun it does not require a FFL. However, it must be stated in a will so after the fact one is not covered unless that has been done. Otherwise a family member has to comply with the rules the same as anyone else.
I have the rule somewhere on my computer but cannot find it quickly.

You can buy a gun for a gift to a family member, but must comply with all the rules. If you do so, the member must be legally competent to receive it. If in your state no FFL, but outside the state you must go through a FFL in the family member's state.

Regards,
Jerry

 

If she brings it to him and gives it to him it is an in state transfer.

Here is a link to a 4473. Buying as a gift is a legitimate purchase, see the definition of "actual buyer" near the bottom of the page.

http://www.titleii.com/pdf/4473.pdf

 

If she brings it to him and gives it to him it is an in state transfer.
Here is a link to a 4473. Buying as a gift is a legitimate purchase, see the definition of "actual buyer" near the bottom of the page.

http://www.titleii.com/pdf/4473.pdf

The bolded part above is FALSE. The physical location in the same state of the two parties has no bearing on the transaction. An in state transfer is one in which both parties are RESIDENTS of the same state. Visiting a state DOES NOT COUNT. Residency is defined in CFR's (code of federal regulations), I can't recall exactly which one at the moment, as "presence in a state with intent to make a home in that state". Coming to a state strictly for visiting with the added purpose of transferring a firearm is not residency.

 

If it's with in the same state you can. For example my wife bought me a new pistol for our anniversary and since we are in the same state it is legal. If I gave something to my Dad, living in a different state, I would need to go through a FFL in his state.

 

Why not have your wife tell her daughter to send you a gift card saying it's for such and such gun, in the amount of the gun price. That way you purchase the gun you want and she doesn't have to worry about extra charges for shipping through a FFL.

 

Great info and many thanks. But this is going to cause my wife some gref as it was to be a big surprise....oh well....hmmm some how I got to figure out a way so I can still get my gun and keep everyone happy. :smoke23: Heck who am I trying to fool, lets face it I am screwed. What can be more complicated than hand gun laws......inlaws:hand5: was nice while it lasted:nutkick:

 

OMG, there is so much false information on this thread, I don't know where to even begin. After the law below, I will attempt to address each false statement individually.

The Federal law governing interstate transfer of firearms is 18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (5):
US CODE: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and
(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

 

Henmeister got it exactly right, so long as state law allows an in state transfer to take place without an FFL. California is an example of a state that generally forbids in state transfers without an FFL.

 

27 CFR 478.11 defines residency:
Section

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An
individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with
the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on
active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is
located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in
the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days
prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm.

 

The question I posed has brought forth a lot of good info, always amazes me just how knowledgeable people can be. I guess I am wondering how we survived without the internet. Without going into detail, my wife provided her daughter with all the necessary info to make the transaction of the new gun to me legal and did not have give up that I knew about it. It was my job to act surprised…I should win an academy award for my performance. Anyway I will pick up my new Kahr PM45 from my dealer tomorrow. What a sweet little gun.

 

Nice. Glad we could ALL help.