[rickyjo]

I sell RBCD and carry it. I have personally shot it and so have several of my customers.. IT WORKS! and it gets the job done. Dont waste your time shooting paper targets...shoot something that really shows how this ammo works. Jim Cirrilo and Roscoe Stoker designed the best self-defense close quarter combat ammo on the market. No doubt about it.

 

[1280]

This assertion is a flat out LIE. I live in, born and raised in Coral Gables, FL. I know the entire city council and the mayor (former we had an election a couple of years ago and don't like the new guy). I exchanged e-mails with the then Mayor who sent it to the Chief of Police who sent it to the proper officer and he responded with the following email which was sent to me. I have "X"ed out my name.

Chief,

The Coral Gables Police Department issues Speer Gold Dot duty ammunition to our officers.

I have never heard of the brand described by Mr. XXXXXX, RBCD, mentioned by our firearms instructors.


Major Joseph McNichol
Coral Gables Police Department
305-460-5430

 

[Cuda66]

I sell RBCD and carry it. I have personally shot it and so have several of my customers.. IT WORKS! and it gets the job done. Dont waste your time shooting paper targets...shoot something that really shows how this ammo works. Jim Cirrilo and Roscoe Stoker designed the best self-defense close quarter combat ammo on the market. No doubt about it.

Really.

So that's why they are banned from doing business with the government ever again, after several studies proved that their claims about their bullets were utter and complete hogwash?

Perhaps there is a reason RBCD/LeMas and all the individuals associated with it (Stan Bulmer, John Hamilton, Sandra Hamilton, Cynthia Stoker, David Allen Stoker) have been indefinitely banned from doing any business with the US Government. (Go here: https://www.epls.gov/epls/search.do and then search for the firm/entity name of "RBCD" or "LeMas LTD" or "Performance Ammunition Tech", or any of the individuals listed above)

Source: LeMas/RBCD Ammunition Analysis - M4Carbine.net Forums

 

[Cuda66]

Quite honestly i'm sick to death of everyone a "wisdom"! No offense intended Randy (ok maybe some) but can you repost the scientific ballistics tests that you did instead of disparaging other peoples comments and experience with this ammo? Oops did I just become a hypocrite? Hmm.....

here: LeMas/RBCD Ammunition Analysis - M4Carbine.net Forums

Some highlights:

Far from being a “non-comparable technology”, a “new generation of munitions”, a “paradigm of technological innovation”, “the single most significant advancement in small arms since the advent of the 20th century”, as Mr. Bulmer claims, the LeMas rifle ammunition is actually nothing but lightweight, repackaged varmint bullets disguised with a black coating of moly, and driven to higher than normal velocities with concomitantly higher than normal pressures. For example, the maximum pressure for 5.56 mm ammunition using the military case mouth test methodology is 58,700 psi. When tested using the military case mouth pressure method in a standard military 20” 1/7 twist test barrel, the LeMas 5.56 mm Land Warfare ammunition demonstrated a 10 shot ave pressure reading of 63,200 psi resulting in a 3907 fps ave velocity. Note that standard military 5.56 mm 62 gr M855 FMJ tested in the same fashion yielded an ave 50,080 psi pressure and an ave velocity of 2985 fps.

And:

Congress appropriated $1,050,000.00 in the FY03 budget for the government to conduct a comprehensive study of LeMas “BMT” ammunition and evaluate the remarkable claims made by LeMas. A 3 year, multi-agency testing effort was conducted and the results compiled and documented. The long awaited USSOCOM/ARDEC report on LeMas ammo was made available for distribution to authorized organizations in August of 2007. Virtually every single claim made by Mr. Bulmer and Mr. Hamilton regarding LeMas bullet design, manufacture, construction methodology and composition, pyrophoric and thermodynamic properties, behavior in tissue simulant, intermediate barrier capability, terminal performance in tissue were all determined to be FALSE. Hopefully this will put to rest any residual doubts about the fraudulent nature of LeMas "BMT". Note that the USSOCOM/ARDEC report validates ALL the information we have released publicly to date above

.

And, as I stated above, their lying about their ammunition has gotten them banned from any future gov't contract...and you kinda gotta lie REAL bad to have that happen.

 

[Shannonsj]

RBCD Controversy?

I don't understand why this is so controversial....If the company lied and got banned, who cares? Like everything else we do when carrying a weapon, we are each responsible for what happens when we pull the trigger. If the owner isn't confident of the performance of what's in the chamber, it's their choice....and their consequence. That said.....I have a couple of boxes of this stuff that I bought based on the hype at a LE specialty shop in town.

I didn't like not being 100 percent sure of what that new round would do so I took some Northern Virginia phone books to the range and put a couple of those RBCD .45 rounds into each from about 20-25 feet. The back half of the phone books looked like confetti. I am confident that anyone I shot with that round at that range would have a bad enough day that they would not be an issue for me. Even if they didn't go down immediately, that's what the hydro-shocks are for just behind that first RBCD round.

One interesting thing I saw that made me limit RBCD rounds to 1 and only 1 in the stack. The impact is about 4-5 inches below point of aim consistently. I attribute that to velocity of the RBCD bullet. My 1911 variant's sights (I believe) account for a certain amount of muzzle rise with traditional/heavier (and slower) .45 caliber bullets. Having several of those wildcards in the stack requires way too much thought for accurate shot placement.

Yes, it's not scientific, but it was enough for me to make sure I have that one round at the top of my mag. But it's too expensive and too "single purpose" to load the entire stack with.

 

[1280]

Shannonsj: Welcome to the forum!

 

[1280]

RBCD

I don't care about the naysayers. I just bought four more boxes: 2 9mm, 1 45 Colt & 1 454 Casull. As I said, the 9mm RBCD like my MagSafe is for warm weather. If I ever move where it's cooler, I'll likely swap them out in the winter for a more traditional LEO type brand like GOLD DOT or one of the Hornady family. But I'll keep RBCD on my own perceptions and that's my risk.:scruntiny:

 

[Cuda66]

Sure, if you want to support a company that made baldfaced lies about their products, knock yourself out.

I'm sure their "ballistics tests" weren't made up either.

 

[Curzyk]

One thing I learned after reading through the majority of posts here is that there have been no less than two "first post" resurrections of this thread by fanatical supporters of this product. Perhaps new members shouldn't be allowed to resurrect old threads lol

 

[OPFOR]

Yeah, well, perhaps some basic understanding of physics, and some basic unwillingness to do business with the absolute bottom of the bottom of the bottom feeders would serve us better...

 

[tombmur]

I tested RBCD and others? have 2 videos

While only six yrs in gun ownership, I take little for granted when it comes to others safety. If I do miss a criminal, I dont want to hit some one else. If the round breaks up after hitting sheet rock, more better. Now as for the 2 tests, I used coconuts for both. First one had five used, each one got a different type of round. FMJ 38Sspcl, Hollow point gold dot 357, Glasier blue 38, Mag safe 38 and RBCD 38. same gun same distance. The HP did do slightly more damage then the fmj. The other three did at least 3-4 more times damage up to and including cracking the shells apart. entrance and exit wounds were at least 1" to 2" holes. RBCD took out an 1" to 1 1/2" swath out a 1/3 of the shell. My friend with 30+ yrs as gun owner and reloader, also a ccw holder for many yrs. He was sold on these rounds for stopping power. The second test used heavy cotton sweat shirt material over the coconut, 8 layers thick. Only slightly less damage.

 

[Cuda66]

While only six yrs in gun ownership, I take little for granted when it comes to others safety. If I do miss a criminal, I dont want to hit some one else. If the round breaks up after hitting sheet rock, more better. Now as for the 2 tests, I used coconuts for both. First one had five used, each one got a different type of round. FMJ 38Sspcl, Hollow point gold dot 357, Glasier blue 38, Mag safe 38 and RBCD 38. same gun same distance. The HP did do slightly more damage then the fmj. The other three did at least 3-4 more times damage up to and including cracking the shells apart. entrance and exit wounds were at least 1" to 2" holes. RBCD took out an 1" to 1 1/2" swath out a 1/3 of the shell. My friend with 30+ yrs as gun owner and reloader, also a ccw holder for many yrs. He was sold on these rounds for stopping power. The second test used heavy cotton sweat shirt material over the coconut, 8 layers thick. Only slightly less damage.

Good to know if I'm ever attacked by coconuts, or sweatshirt wearing coconuts.

Beyond that, I'll listen to folks who have a bit more experience in these matters, and who say that RBCD, Magsafe, et al are gimmick loads to be avoided.

 

[1280]

RBCD

Good to know if I'm ever attacked by coconuts, or sweatshirt wearing coconuts.

Beyond that, I'll listen to folks who have a bit more experience in these matters, and who say that RBCD, Magsafe, et al are gimmick loads to be avoided.

Well, I have a little MORE experience than the other poster and although I do realize I'm in the minority opinion on this, I carry all of the above almost exclusively here in sunny Miami, FL. Not because I think it's a "magic bullet" for stopping power or because I fret about the legendary and extremely rare thru-n-thru gunshot wounding a bystander (although that's pretty close) I really worry about the consequence of a miss. With all of the ammo being so denigrated here, if you miss, with the first inanimate object struck, the round simply powders. The RBCD also loses power very quickly beyond common defensive ranges. I'd rather risk the consequences of not blowing the guy to smithereens ~chuckle~ and making sure as much as possible, that I don't have to live with an innocent dying amid the chaos of the event. I also practice a lot more as I get older. I'm also replacing my sights (where necessary) with TFO's and adding CT laser grips, which I just love. When the green CT's come out I may upgrade to them, because they're much better in daylight. One caveat! I do this with the ammo ONLY here in South Florida where the clothing is very light almost year round. I don't think we've gotten below 40* here all winter. But I bring out the down vest when it hits 50! If I go where it's colder, I'll go back to what the PD carries. Again, I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm not a neophyte either! This is just MY choice and I'm not necessarily recommending that anybody else implement it unless they also feel as I do about bystanders.

 

[Cuda66]

Well, I have a little MORE experience than the other poster and although I do realize I'm in the minority opinion on this, I carry all of the above almost exclusively here in sunny Miami, FL. Not because I think it's a "magic bullet" for stopping power or because I fret about the legendary and extremely rare thru-n-thru gunshot wounding a bystander (although that's pretty close) I really worry about the consequence of a miss. With all of the ammo being so denigrated here, if you miss, with the first inanimate object struck, the round simply powders. The RBCD also loses power very quickly beyond common defensive ranges. I'd rather risk the consequences of not blowing the guy to smithereens ~chuckle~ and making sure as much as possible, that I don't have to live with an innocent dying amid the chaos of the event. I also practice a lot more as I get older. I'm also replacing my sights (where necessary) with TFO's and adding CT laser grips, which I just love. When the green CT's come out I may upgrade to them, because they're much better in daylight. One caveat! I do this with the ammo ONLY here in South Florida where the clothing is very light almost year round. I don't think we've gotten below 40* here all winter. But I bring out the down vest when it hits 50! If I go where it's colder, I'll go back to what the PD carries. Again, I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm not a neophyte either! This is just MY choice and I'm not necessarily recommending that anybody else implement it unless they also feel as I do about bystanders.

Except it doesn't.

Look at all of the evidence presented--it's NOT a special, magical metal bullet--it's a soft lead bullet with a rubber plug in the base.

In short, it's not going to live up to the claims RBCD made about the bullet--they lied to you.

Feel free to carry what you wish...but at least make that decision based on solid information, not lies from a marketing department.

ETA--pics of the bullet:

And:

As can be seen above, in addition to a typical copper jacket, the RBCD/LeMas bullets analyzed were fabricated with a nylon core (that gets variably squished and deformed during manufacture, resulting in inconsistent bullet CG) and metal nose portion that turns out to be composed of LEAD, with slight amounts of antimony. In other words, the RBCD/LeMas bullets are lightweight, high-velocity, lead nosed JSP’s—so much for lead-free, programmable, heat sensitive “blended metal technology”…

Source: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19888

 

[1280]

Did you even read my post???

Except it doesn't.

Look at all of the evidence presented--it's NOT a special, magical metal bullet--it's a soft lead bullet with a rubber plug in the base.

In short, it's not going to live up to the claims RBCD made about the bullet--they lied to you.

Feel free to carry what you wish...but at least make that decision based on solid information, not lies from a marketing department.

ETA--pics of the bullet:

View attachment 69955

Did you read my post? I said I wasn't that interested in the bullet properties. If I do a decent job even the muzzle blast from a blank round will kill. There are a number of [dead] actors that will attest to this but they'll be doing so from the hereafter. But a miss will result in a bounced shot if it doesn't outright hit a bystander and a ricochet is unpredictable. I know for a fact that the GLASER and MAGSAFE rounds do not bounce. Neither does RBCD. I have had the occasion to take out a many poisonous snakes at my late father-in-Law's (recently deceased old war horse WWII) hangar with a 45. I did that several times over the years. Lake City FL was loaded with snakes and the hangar was warm and dry and very accessible to them that slithered. With grand kids lurking at that time as pre-teens, I was never in a mood to let the snakes slide in and out while the kids were climbing all over the planes. I was never quite so thankful for that ammo as I was clipping off snakes in an all concrete building at some pretty close ranges. No worries, not for myself or any of the kids. Know what else? The noise was pretty quiet.

Might have had something to do with the acoustics in the hangar (held a Cessna 310 and a Pitts stunt plane and a quarter sized Corsair of the type the old man flew in the Pacific in '43. That old guy was a genuine hero! 18 air to air kills. Navy Cross, Silver Star, TWO DFC's. I am so proud of that old marine. Even for having been gone for over three years now. But for lack of the ricochet factor all that ammo was stellar.That's why I carry it. Not for some ethereal claims of Über Power.

 

[Tubby45]

OK, tell you what. Get to a farm or custom slaughterhouse. Get them to let you shoot an animal in the head with that RBCD ammunition. You choose the caliber. Brain shot from 12 inches away. Then when they sever the head from the carcass, bifurcate it and show the damage done.

If you lived near me, I'd have you come to my inlaw's farm and do it when I slaughter a pig or cow.

For those that don't know, a gunshot to the head isn't to kill the animal for butchering, it's to stun it so it holds still while you cut it's neck and bleed it out. That's what kills it, not the gunshot.