********* 51 Armscor!! One reason I reload practice ammo . Oh , the - Keep thinking that - you said back on 11/18 reply . Still rather have a 9mm +P in a small 3/ 3.5" handgun but also why I rather have a 40sw over a 38 super or even a 357sig from a 4" or longer class of barrel like my 13+1 40sw that smaller and lighter than a LW commander sized pistol and still makes 600ft lbs energy with several loads . So many choices in handguns and cartridges !

 

The two tone is my carry gun. I retired the 70 series after the friend I got it from passed away he turned me on to it and I've been hooked ever since. Both have grips he made WWII short triggers, two piece guide rods, and extended slide stops.

 

38 super because it's a classic oldie but goody

Plus you can make some vast improvements with a 38 super using hand loads. I've got loads that will make 1450 all day with 124s.

I've got some 147 gr that are supposed to be at 1200. But I haven't got to chrono mine yet it's been a touch cold here. Not seen a 9mm send a 147 that fast and it's all within safe pressure for 38 super.

38 super is a really loader friendly cartridge that makes good power but it's been neutered on the shelf ammo unless you go with buffalo bore or underwood. Basically it's a 9mm with extra case capacity you can do anything 9mm can do plus some more. My opinion it's like a SA version of 357 Mag. A number 1 load for defense was always advertised as 125 grain at 1450. I'm getting the same velocity plus I've got 9+1 in a 1911. What's not to like?

 

Those are nice, but I want the beaver tail, ring hammer and easily replaceable sights. Commander length is a must.

 

Yeah, I get that. I only posted those two as "baseline" .38 Super contenders.

It is "rumored" (so I've heard) that Colt may be coming out with a Commander-sized Super.

If they do, it will be on my bucket list, for sure. :image035:

 

Over the years I have owned four .45 ACP 1911s. Three Colts and a Kimber. Just for the diversion, I would like to have a .38 Super since I have read about them all my life. Then came Sig with its .357 Sig in a 1911 package. That is also tempting.

 

I have had two Sig 1911s, good guns. The slides feel like greased glass. They show a 4.25" on their site, but never seem to ship any to dealers. The only issue I have with them is the small parts are reported to be getting cheaper every year. Their MIM vendor is in India and has several quality levels of product. Sig is not buying the vendors top tier MIM.
I am not anti MIM, but for the price of a Sig, I would rather buy a Colt with supposedly only four MIM parts sourced in the US. If Sig 1911 were $200-$300 cheaper I would buy one in 357.

I want one of the new Colt lightweight Commanders, but they are not offered in Super.

 

Don't be surprised if one doesn't show up in a post in the not to distant future.

 

I won't pit the .38 Super against the 45 ACP, but I like the look of the .38 Super a lot. I like what handloading can do with it. I like that when performance is considered, the .38 Super really is everything the 9mm isn't. I can see a .38 Super in my future.

Still like the notion of fat, heavy .45 bullets.

 

I won't pit the .38 Super against the 45 ACP, but I like the look of the .38 Super a lot. I like what handloading can do with it. I like that when performance is considered, the .38 Super really is everything the 9mm isn't. I can see a .38 Super in my future.

Still like the notion of fat .45 bullets.

I love my .45ACP pistols and love shooting them. But .38 Super really hits a "sweet spot" that feels like shooting 9mm Luger.

And you get 2 or 3 more rounds.

I'll bet you'd like the round, Bryan, as I have come to. :smile:

 

A lot of love for the Super in this thread. I sold all my 1911s a few years ago and will eventually buy one in 2017. I am torn between 38 and 45. I don't need another cartridge to reload and already have .357 Sig pushing 1450fps.

I like faster over big and slow so I load 135s in my 40 in the 1250 to 1300 range. So I am torn as a Super would be redundant. I know Sig is finally offering 357 in their 1911s, but yet to see anything but 5".
I want a commander length barrel for carry and really like the new Colts. But if I can save enough, a DW Vbob may be the ticket. Either of those would have to be 45 or Super.

The Super has its own bullet @.356 according to my Lyman manual. 9mm is .355 and .357 mag is .358.
Am I reading that correctly, I wouldn't be able to share slugs between calibers?
Speak to me reloaders.

 

A lot of love for the Super in this thread. I sold all my 1911s a few years ago and will eventually buy one in 2017. I am torn between 38 and 45. I don't need another cartridge to reload and already have .357 Sig pushing 1450fps.

I like faster over big and slow so I load 135s in my 40 in the 1250 to 1300 range. So I am torn as a Super would be redundant. I know Sig is finally offering 357 in their 1911s, but yet to see anything but 5".
I want a commander length barrel for carry and really like the new Colts. But if I can save enough, a DW Vbob may be the ticket. Either of those would have to be 45 or Super.
The Super has its own bullet @.356 according to my Lyman manual. 9mm is .355 and .357 mag is .358.
Am I reading that correctly, I wouldn't be able to share slugs between calibers?
Speak to me reloaders.

Every Super reload I have ever done is with .355 so for Super reload , you're good to go. Conversely, .357 is an RCH too big. Ask me how I know (he says shamefacedly)

 

Armscor ammo , never fired any ?? I don't buy "hardball" or fmj . Practice ammo is all reloads and most time coated swc . I like a good fast mid weight load as well as the next " more power guy" but NO typical defense load is a gar-o-teed one shot man stopped so keep shooting to the threat isn't !

CDW4ME There might not be much difference in split times between your g19c g19 and 1911 to matter , BUT ,, you missed the part about your reaction time , draw stroke to first round fired along with gun size and position for carry . Guess you carry your 4" pistol at a 3:30 to 4:30 position with a forward cant ?? Now get a comfortable with a 3 or 3.5" single stack or sub c double stack small and practice your draw from a 1:30 to 2:30 position open , then concealed . Try adding some rear cant to aid in a cleaned up draw stroke . You end up with a reaction to a beep for your your draw to first round fired . NO split time at all yet . Then its up to how quick and accurate you can be with a smaller handgun and multiple rounds fired . Now repeat with larger pistol . See if you can draw and fire a round from the small up front carry before you draw and firing your normal carry .

 

Armscor is just fine, a little dirty but it works

 

From a long-long time ago in a far and distant land. We had an O1 member of our FO/AO team that that grabbed my 1911A1 from my shoulder holster as his Colt-1911 in 38-Super went empty. (At the moment in time of the occurence I did not know it was a 38-Super) From prior experience I had learned the pistol was a nice supplement to a rifle. The O1 explained to me that his father had carried the Colt-1911-38-Super in WW2 and Korea. We all learn from experience that is if we survive the experience

 

the .38 super that was carried in WWII and Korea must have been a personal weapon, unless the 01 father was a high ranking officer, a very unlikely event.

 

Now those of you have or can borrow a 9mm or 38super comparable to there 45 . Do some draw a fire drills on a timer . Assume the target is on angle dust and really po'ed now try to place a mag full of 45 rounds in the A zone at 12 yards and see how it works out for split times and accuracy compared to a 9mm/38super . You might find your faster , as in more rounds on target with better shot placement with the smaller cartridges . Enough to make you rethink how great your 45 is or isn't . Got to be more than a few reasons why Bill Wilson prefers a 9mm over the 45 that made his name today . Or why les beer prefers a 38super over a 45 . And why many other respected 1911 instructor and "experts" have moved to 9mm or 38 super over the 45 .

Then theres the problem that , Sometimes even 14 solid hits from a 45 is barely enough , good thing a bg can be a bad shot some times .

 

I use a 6 inch circle placed on a silhouette at 6 - 7 yards.
Both 1st & 2nd shot must hit the 6 inch circle for the pair to count for average.
My Glock 19C has consistently the quickest 2nd shot times, about .19 sec using SD ammo, regular Glock 19 about .25 sec.
Ed Brown 1911 in 45 acp with 230 gr. ammo was around .29 sec.
I'm not worried about three or four hundredths second split time. (Non-ported vs non-ported)

Capacity, why did you have to .... :headache:
I've just gotten satisfied carrying my Ruger CMD commander 8 + 1 and a spare mag rather than a Glock. :vs_no_no_no:

 

IMO, for SD it is hard to beat a 230 gr. HST or Ranger T expanding .85'' - 1.00''

 

And the wound channel is just unbelievably undeniable hence the .85 - 1.00" expansion.

 

Once I leave ca I plan to build a carry gun with complete top ends that I can swap to give me 9mm, 38 Super, and possibly 40 cal. If I can make the 40 reliable Ill also add 357 sig. They will all be fitted to the same 1911 trigger frame.
I have been wanting to do this since the 80's. I had a 38 super and a 9mm barrel. Swapping was as easy as changing barrels but I want one on the same lines as the old Dan Wesson revolver set! DR

 

Kenny53 45 ,acp , baa humbug . None of today defense cartridge are that good at dispatching a BG with out follow up shots maybe a pile of them . Yea , yea the 45 was around for a 100 years , so was the 9mm para /nato/ luger. When nothing but fmj was used you had few options , big was bitter . But not today .

Did you read the story of the leo that placed 14 45acp hp rounds in a bad guy . Hit every major organ but the brain and the BG stay lived until he got to the hospital . Maybe more rounds in a mag , more control and fast follow upshots is the reason behind him changing to 9mm after the shoot out .


dangeranger Don't forget the 7.62x25 as an early armor penetrator .

 

38 super compared to 45 acp. the 38 Super was designed to defeat body armour. Body armour of the day was a tin or steel plate worn under the jacket. It would also shoot through the car body's of the day. At its highest loadings it "may" defeat modern body armour. The modern stuff is designed to stop lower velocity pistol rounds.[ as compared to rifle rounds that would be considered high velocity] 38 Super at its high end falls on the border between Low and high velocity.

I have tested 38 super against well worn bullet resistant vests , and bullet resistant glass. This was with a high end load and used a very strong FMJ bullet. All of the bullets defeated the bullet resistant glass and 40% of those fired at the vests passed through. What I don't have is a way to test is how much energy was left after passing through.
None of the 45's passed through either the glass or the vests. It takes velocity to defeat both of them. And velocity is not what 45 acp was designed for.
You can call it apples to oranges but that's what they are. DR

 

45 ACP has been a fight stopper for over 100 years.

 

Just besure 50fps if worth it for a 38super . Of course you can also buy a 9mm barrel or the other way around . A 9mm +P+ can manage 124gr at 1300fps and a 38super +P can manage 1350fp in comparable barrels . At least push come to shove I can buy 9mm in ole shop that sells ammo and more than likely have a choice of ammo .

 

A reloaded can safely push the velocity more than the 9mm could ever muster and beat that 1350 fps pretty easily.

 

Thinking of selling mine



Check your PM. Have an almost new one with 8 magazines, about 500 rounds of ammo, snap caps, box an papers, as new, for less than the price of a new one.

Have too many toys in my gun safe.

 

38 super over 45 and assume you reload !! Now think about this You could buy the 9mm version as a shorter 4" or 4.25"barrel when running at 9mm+P with some of the better ammo or hand loads leave's little to nothing for the 38super to better . I have some underwood 124gr that manages 1241fps from a 4" barrel and still have leo spec 9MM +P+ ammo out there . Consider to that the LW commander was designed for the 9mm . Easier and cheap ammo to buy and a reloaders cost is less for 9mm .

 

Sure , keep thinking that . 9 mm has improved greatly over the past thirty six years , a great round now. Everything else has as well . Including good ol' Super . You are right about reloading, Super can be jacked up nicely

Best solution is to shoot all three , 9 mm,0,38 Super and .45 ACP. Decide what works best for you.

 

Well, since you have heard from what I think is the >38 Super
expert on DC forum.

My Ruger 9mm is tamer than my old DW .38 Super.

That said. Load selection goes a long ways in recoil reduction with
any caliber.

The Guardian is a good buy if less than $1,600 in 2016 dollars.

They will probably go up 10-14% in Jan so jump on one soon.

I did find that both 9mm and .45 ACP were cheaper to buy than .38 Super.

If you find the Super isn't to your liking, they offer the Guardian in 9mm
and .45 as well.

I still like .45 Commanders, like my old CBOB, but the 9mm is easier on my hands and since
I have a range membership these days and shoot at least 100 rounds a
week, much easier on my ammo fund.

A 9mm 1911 is also lighter to carry than a Super or .45 ACP pistol.


The Ruger was also half the price of a Dan Wesson, not to mention..
a Wilson 1911.

 

+1 to above I carry at times a sig 220 in 38 super ..Love it ..Hits like a freight train no flip to speak of and I mean it was made to go though the 1930 steel vest and car doors from the ganster days ..Whats not to love

 

Not having more than one?

 

I'd get the Super. IMHO, it's one of the MOST effective, LEAST appreciated calibers on...the planet. :yup:

 

Im all in on this....although having had .45ACP for many years.....38 Super is still my fav. auto cartridge in the same way my
.44 Specials have always been my fav. revolver. Not much NOT to like...

 

0,38 super is fast, great penetration, straight shooting, hits like a .357 . I carry Super almost exclusively. Fast and true, I love my taco shooter for carry and self defense. Not much recoil, muzzle flip is minimal to nonexistent.

.45 is a great , accurate, hits like a hammer ,round.Moves at a little more than half the speed of the 0,38 Super . It's an outgrowth of the the old .38 ACP (look at the rounds, the skinny cousin and the linebacker ) The .45 acp never shrinks . And yeah, I love the .45 .

You cannot lose with either caliber in spite of my Super prejudice .

 

I love my taco shooter for carry and self defense..

what is a taco shooter?