Pretty sure on answer based on research but would like to hear it directly on the forum. I have a Kahr 45ACP and thought I had ordered 45ACP ammo--maybe I erred in my order but 5 boxes of 45 Auto were sent. right now I am of the opinion that this is a non-issue and they can both be fired from the Kahr. The 45 Auto is just that and it is not any of the other 45 caliber boutique types of 45--ie 45GAP etal. 45 Auto/45ACP--same? Yes or no.
kelcarry
Agreed...they are the same. The ACP stands for "Automatic Colt Pistol", since the round was developed by Colt. The term "45 Auto" is used today by companies as a generic term for the same round. The term likely came from other manufacturers who did not want to give Colt any additional marketing.
As mentioned, yes they are.
To the history of the .45ACP, the cartridge (with a 200 grain bullet at that time) was designed by John Browning in 1904, for use in his then prototype M1905. Meaning, it was JMB's .45 calibre to be used in the Automatic Colt Pistol. :wink:
![Image]()
(photo courtesy of Sam Lisker's Colt Autos.com)
To the history of the .45ACP, the cartridge (with a 200 grain bullet at that time) was designed by John Browning in 1904, for use in his then prototype M1905. Meaning, it was JMB's .45 calibre to be used in the Automatic Colt Pistol. :wink:
(photo courtesy of Sam Lisker's Colt Autos.com)
From henceforth I shall yield the floor to the Gentleman Shootist, and residing "Sultan of the Single Action" OD.
I would call you "Guru" sir, but Col. Cooper holds that distinction still.........:smile:
I would call you "Guru" sir, but Col. Cooper holds that distinction still.........:smile:
I appreciate the kind sentiments, I really do.
I am no guru by any means, just a student of the 1911 that is fortunate enough to learn something new about them everyday it seems.
And you Sir are spot on about the Colonel. :hand10:
I am no guru by any means, just a student of the 1911 that is fortunate enough to learn something new about them everyday it seems.
And you Sir are spot on about the Colonel. :hand10:
OD
You are as humble as you are good looking. :hand5:
We're not letting you get away with that humility.
You ARE a 1911 Guru and we are fortunate to have you here. :yup:
Many a time have you answered even my obscure 1911 related questions and queries both publicly and VIA private Mail. :yup:
You are as humble as you are good looking. :hand5:
We're not letting you get away with that humility.
You ARE a 1911 Guru and we are fortunate to have you here. :yup:
Many a time have you answered even my obscure 1911 related questions and queries both publicly and VIA private Mail. :yup:
An obscure 45 round you may run into on occasion is the 45AR, AR meaning Auto Rim. This is a round identical to the 45ACP with the exception that it is a rimmed round whereas the ACP is rimless. The round was intended for use in the M1917 Colt since it did not require using half-moon clips.
QKShooter if you keep talkin like that OD will start wonderin if you are lookin for long, hot showers together snd he will end up filing a restraining order on you.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
Thanks QK, but if the true were known, I'm fairly certain I have learned more from you, than you ever have from me.
As an example, I did not know that the extractor test Vickers and Hackathorn are accepting credit for was developed by the late Master, Armand Swenson. I hadn't known that until you told me about it yesterday.
As an example, I did not know that the extractor test Vickers and Hackathorn are accepting credit for was developed by the late Master, Armand Swenson. I hadn't known that until you told me about it yesterday.
Dang... OD is actually thinking about showering with QKShooter...
Maybe I am the one that needs the restraining order.
Maybe I am the one that needs the restraining order.
Back on topic.
Yes, they are the same.
Kelcarry, I'm sure you will appreciate my input, and saving your thread from those rude hijackers above.
The nerve of some posters. Sheese.
Yes, they are the same.
Kelcarry, I'm sure you will appreciate my input, and saving your thread from those rude hijackers above.
The nerve of some posters. Sheese.
How many moderators does it take...
Never mind.
To my knowledge, the only .45 rounds in fairly common use currently are ACP (aka Auto), Long Colt, and GAP. ACP is by far the most common, and the others are visibly longer and shorter, respectively. Any I'm missing?
Never mind.
To my knowledge, the only .45 rounds in fairly common use currently are ACP (aka Auto), Long Colt, and GAP. ACP is by far the most common, and the others are visibly longer and shorter, respectively. Any I'm missing?
You got the neatest damned toys, Bryan!
What year is your 1905, later model I presume because of the spur hammer?
ETA: I missed the "late production" and it certainly isn't, sad-looking.
(on second thought, why don't you just send that rat to me, being the swell guy I am, I won't even charge you a disposal fee!)
What year is your 1905, later model I presume because of the spur hammer?
ETA: I missed the "late production" and it certainly isn't, sad-looking.
(on second thought, why don't you just send that rat to me, being the swell guy I am, I won't even charge you a disposal fee!)
No letter but with a serial number of 5700-'n-something it's probably 1910-1911.
A pistol this ratty would spoil your whole menagerie.
I'm thinking I posted it's tale some years ago here on Defensive Carry, among other places. Was a fun acquisition. Anyway, here it is again.
________________________________________________________________________________________
"Pancho Villa" the Colt Model 1905
My 1905 is far from perfect. It is complete, original, has the proper magazine, and is in good order, but the blue has turned to a soft brown patina except in a few protected areas. The original finely checkered walnut grip panels are so worn that most of the checkering is completely gone.
When I worked for a bank in Glen Rose, Texas I had a Mexican lady who was my customer and who also used cleaned the bank. After her brother had died she spoke of a Colt .45 automatic she had around the house that had been her brother's gun. She said it had previously been her grandfather's pistol and that he'd brought it with him when he came up from Mexico. I love old guns and envisioned an old beater of a U. S. Army .45 so asked her to bring it by sometime. She said she would and that in fact she'd thought of selling it as she was concerned about having it about the house with her grandchildren. I didn't much think I'd want it as I had some decent military .45's. One day she brought it by my office wrapped in a rag inside a paper sack. I'm sure my chin hit the desk when I unwrapped it to find a Model 1905. Only about 6200 were ever made. Of course I was interested in purchasing it and told her so. She was hesitant as it was a family heirloom. I said: "that's ok, I don't blame you for wanting to hang on to it. Why don't you let me clean it up for you so it may be better preserved?" So I cleaned it , oiled it, and gave it a thin coating of RIG. I returned it to her and didn't think any more about it.
Several years later, and after I'd left that bank, I ran into her and she asked me if I still wanted to buy her .45. Well of course I did so I took possession of the old pistol.
I've read that the early Colt automatics with the dual link "parallel slide rule" design were unsafe to fire. The design doesn't share many of the later 1911's attributes. After examining the design closely I determined that if the slide velocity wasn't too high that the gun should be fine to fire. The .45 ACP as it was introduced in 1905 featured a 200 grain bullet, so I prepared some 200 grain lead SWC handloads with a moderate charge of Unique. I worked up from the minimum listed charge weight to a middle-of-the-road charge which gave good function. The old gun is as accurate as my other military .45's and has never jammed. I wouldn't subject it to a lot of use but am willing to take it out for occasional exercise.
I've never indulged in naming my firearms with the exception of this one which I call Pancho Villa. It just has to be one of his original guns. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I keep intending to spring the hundred bucks for a Colt factory letter but haven't gotten around to it.
As may be seen it's missing a couple of grip screws. I'm certain that the same sized screw fits several early Colt semi-auto pistols but how often does one stumble across any such pistol or screws? If anyone has a suggestion for a source I'd be grateful to know it.
__________________________________________________________________________________
![Image]()
Pancho Villa "roars into action" at a "meet-n-greet" in Tennessee a few years back, hosted by a member of a private forum I'm on. A fairly prominent S&W forum member's putting it through its paces while I man the camera. The smoke is from the bullet lube used. Notice the ejected cartridge case in mid-air in this "action shot."
A pistol this ratty would spoil your whole menagerie.
I'm thinking I posted it's tale some years ago here on Defensive Carry, among other places. Was a fun acquisition. Anyway, here it is again.
________________________________________________________________________________________
"Pancho Villa" the Colt Model 1905
My 1905 is far from perfect. It is complete, original, has the proper magazine, and is in good order, but the blue has turned to a soft brown patina except in a few protected areas. The original finely checkered walnut grip panels are so worn that most of the checkering is completely gone.
When I worked for a bank in Glen Rose, Texas I had a Mexican lady who was my customer and who also used cleaned the bank. After her brother had died she spoke of a Colt .45 automatic she had around the house that had been her brother's gun. She said it had previously been her grandfather's pistol and that he'd brought it with him when he came up from Mexico. I love old guns and envisioned an old beater of a U. S. Army .45 so asked her to bring it by sometime. She said she would and that in fact she'd thought of selling it as she was concerned about having it about the house with her grandchildren. I didn't much think I'd want it as I had some decent military .45's. One day she brought it by my office wrapped in a rag inside a paper sack. I'm sure my chin hit the desk when I unwrapped it to find a Model 1905. Only about 6200 were ever made. Of course I was interested in purchasing it and told her so. She was hesitant as it was a family heirloom. I said: "that's ok, I don't blame you for wanting to hang on to it. Why don't you let me clean it up for you so it may be better preserved?" So I cleaned it , oiled it, and gave it a thin coating of RIG. I returned it to her and didn't think any more about it.
Several years later, and after I'd left that bank, I ran into her and she asked me if I still wanted to buy her .45. Well of course I did so I took possession of the old pistol.
I've read that the early Colt automatics with the dual link "parallel slide rule" design were unsafe to fire. The design doesn't share many of the later 1911's attributes. After examining the design closely I determined that if the slide velocity wasn't too high that the gun should be fine to fire. The .45 ACP as it was introduced in 1905 featured a 200 grain bullet, so I prepared some 200 grain lead SWC handloads with a moderate charge of Unique. I worked up from the minimum listed charge weight to a middle-of-the-road charge which gave good function. The old gun is as accurate as my other military .45's and has never jammed. I wouldn't subject it to a lot of use but am willing to take it out for occasional exercise.
I've never indulged in naming my firearms with the exception of this one which I call Pancho Villa. It just has to be one of his original guns. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I keep intending to spring the hundred bucks for a Colt factory letter but haven't gotten around to it.
As may be seen it's missing a couple of grip screws. I'm certain that the same sized screw fits several early Colt semi-auto pistols but how often does one stumble across any such pistol or screws? If anyone has a suggestion for a source I'd be grateful to know it.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Pancho Villa "roars into action" at a "meet-n-greet" in Tennessee a few years back, hosted by a member of a private forum I'm on. A fairly prominent S&W forum member's putting it through its paces while I man the camera. The smoke is from the bullet lube used. Notice the ejected cartridge case in mid-air in this "action shot."
What kind of shell holder do you put the auto rimmed rounds in when you're reloading (.50?). Obviously they won't fit in a .45 ACP holder...
Something that seems to have been left out, NEVER USE .45 GAP in a 1911. It's made for Glocks only and won't work in the 1911.
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