I agree with sixto. If I were in that situation, the first sign of LE and I am dropping the weapon and hands up. They can cuff me and stuff me in the back of a car if they want, it will get straightened out after the fact.

Better embarassed and alive than heroic and dead.

 

One this this thread is really reiterating is that carrying AND especially using a weapon in a crisis situation is a complex thing and we just all better recognize that there are no real clean solutions to this identifcation problem.

SIXTO... I'm starting to better understand the LEO aspect of this. It ain't easy from either side is it?

 

SIXTO... I'm starting to better understand the LEO aspect of this. It ain't easy from either side is it?

Nope, it isnt. Nothing is clear cut black and white, but thats why I love the work I do.

 

SIXTO... I'm starting to better understand the LEO aspect of this. It ain't easy from either side is it?

Kudos to this post .

There is NOTHING that can be seen as an absolute in a use of force situation , Personal goals and opinions go right out the window when you are faced with the " man with a gun " be you LE or not . Most officers have a real deep desire to make thier little corner of the world better ( they are to smart to think they can change the world ) . LE is in fact a calling as well as a profession and by no means can all who are called handle the reality of it . I was LE for 10.5 years 10 of them pretty happy tho poor . I will go to my grave now knowing i have done more good than harm in this life and that is worth a lot since not all riches are financial . Six and others serve as the boys in the .mil do just without the kudos for the most part . We as ccw bs a lot about how we would rather have a gun than a cop , and its just that BS . If i could get a cop on demand , this instant well that folks is what i want lol . Unfortunatly in the small town i live in there are exactly 2 city officers , with backup of 3 county officers . All of them will do a better job of investigation than a patrolman from a large agency .. but by the same token they wont be here if things happen when there is no coverage . This means we have an awesome clearance rate on crime since the officers we do have are well trained ( over trained by some standards ) . But we do real bad on " 911 interverntion " by the police . If you call our officers will show up , and when they do you had best listen to them , they may be late but they will be there in the time it takes to get dressed, ect... and they will bring all the friends they can find , some of them you may not know . Its time to be offical even if you know the officer ... do what he says , and go on from there .. I can whip dammed near any case in court ( see oj and murder on google if needed ) but the officers who show up want to " fix " the situation they are called to ... its my time to both comply and stfu .

 

All the good guys should be wearing white hats or a badge. I would put my gun down and follow any instructions the LEO gave

 

If I ever have to draw and fire or just draw when the LEO arrives I will act faster than France did in WWII.

Last thing we need is another reason to remove guns from this world because a LEO shot the man who stopped the BG because he was the one with the gun.

 

My thoughts on that: The only form of ID is what i've been issued by (in my case) the OSBI: The CHL-card! I cannot cover all possibilities here, but here is what i would in 99.9% of the cases when i have to draw my weapon: As soon as the immediate thread is over, i'll get my wallet with the CHL, unfold it, wait for the police to arrive and follow all their orders. Period.

It propably won't protect me from being cuffed and hauled away, but at least it gives the cops an ideat that "this is propably a good guy" and it may help working things out faster.

Just my 2 cents!

Mike

 

Okay, Sixto,
I'll humbly apologize :sad6: for misreading your post.

Yeah, Sixto, none of us are as good as you guys in uniform, huh?

No where in my post does it say that. Its an indentification issue, not whos better than who.

Whamonkey expressed my sentiments. It just came across as if you ain't in a uniform you're just another jerk I have to deal with and no matter how good you think you are, you're not one of us.

Sorry, but that's the way I read it. Now I see you're just saying that regardless of any sort of symbol, sign or communication, if someone has a gun, no uniform or badge, they get cuffed & secured as a suspect until you can sort it out.

And as I mentioned, once the cops arrive, it's their scene and you follow their directions.

LEOs, please note - most BGs tend towards "mexican" carry or non-holster carry in pockets, the hood of "hoodies". That guy wearing a leather holster on his belt is probably a good guy. Add to it that he's not running from you and is complying with orders should be a clue.

That might be true, it might not be. I will not take that risk.

You might want to read the FBI's "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers."

Here is a very good summary at ForceScienceNews.

Excerpt: :coffee-n-news:
The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion." None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon.

 

Stupid post, these are the ppl who shouldn't have a CCW.

 

Making enemies and pissing off friends?:icon_neutral: This is a rehash topic, so I'm not saying much, but if you have a contention, either way, it is polite to state your case. Or your opinion. Which we all have. And know the common similie, regarding......:scratchchin:

 

I might point out that the recent introduction of a bill in SC to allow carry in Colleges and University's here resulted in comments from our LEO Chief to be printed just to this very point. His objections was "we would not be able to tell the good guy from the bad guy". Now...thats a valid claim. But its not a valid reason to deny someone the right to protect himself. Inevitably someone is going to get shot by an LE from mistaken identity. And its likely as not to be the Defenders fault. Assuming he/she does not realize that THEY CAN"T tell the bad guy from the good guy. However I disagree with him in the conclusion that this is enough reason to deny people the right to defend themselves. Because if HE cannot provide 100% security to 100% or the people 100% of the time, he has no right to deny them the ability to protect themselves. He may have situations where his people have the right to shoot a good guy. But it will be the good guys fault. It probably will happen some day... but I will take my chances with that. And I think every CWP will too. I don't expect them to know. I expect to make it as clear as I can that I am no threat. I expect them to consider all people a threat in that sort of an incident. At least I am still alive to try and prove I am no threat. At least I lived 10 minutes longer to do so.

I will be taking him to task on this through private channels. How many times have we heard that excuse? How many times was it followed up that we would all be safer if only the cops had guns? How many times does it have to fail for this slight hypothetical risk to be worth it?

 

I agree with you cp, but it can be an issue like the OP pointed out with the original question.
BillCA brought up the point that very few BG's wear holsters etc., and while he has a point, I doubt that any LEO is going to be paying attention to how you have accessorized for the day. If you were CCing before the shooting started, your holster is likely to be still concealed. I'm not looking at your holster either way when the bullets are flying.

 

Oh I don't agree with reholstering. I am for dropping the gun when the threat is eliminated and putting my hands over my head.

My point was that I agree it will happen. But I would rather take that chance confronting an LEO than confronting a Mr Cao.

And I completely understand I will be a Perp for some brief scary moments.

But that logic is NOT enough reason to deny me the opportunity to meet force with force when you cannot garrantee my personal safety. It would be tragic, but at least I have a chance.