Welcome to the forum, try the search feature "dog attack"
I'm sure there is a lot of info. there.

 

Thanks, I tried that first, but came up with nothing under dog, and unrelated info under dog attack. I found the search funtion was ignoring the word dog and needed the quotes around "dog attack" to get any info.

 

IMO, lethal force could be used. the dog could very well turn on you at any moment; plus, in most states, dogs are considered property. i actually was faced with this situation some years back. i lived in the country, and most folks in that town let their dogs run loose. everyone but me, because i had a pit bull, and local LEO made it pretty clear that they wanted him leashed and muzzled at all times, no matter that he was a family dog. on a daily walk, a neighbor's dobie run up on my mom, my dog and i. that dobie was 5 seconds from buying a ticket to that great kennel in the sky. her owner ran out and got her just in time. this wasn't the first time; that dog ran loose all day, constantly harrassing people as well as dogs. about a year and a half later, another local ended up having to shoot the dobie, for the same reason: the dobie had mauled his daschund, in his own driveway. local LEO said it was a square shoot; he was saving his dog's life, plus protesting his property. again, some places are different; i've heard in NY it still isn't justified unless the attack is against a human. i'd ask the local PD.

 

Anything attacks this fine looking girl to our left and it goes down. She's pretty good about defending herself but wouldn't stand a chance against a fighting type dog. I figure a dog doesn't know that I am a human and it would stop at just killing my dog. It would move on to me next. I'm not giving it the chance. Keep your dogs leashed and you don't face that problem.

 

If I'm walking my shih-tzu, or my pug, and a big dog is visible anywhere in the area, I'm going to pick up my dog and carry it. If a dog is trying to attack me, or the dog I'm holding, I'm going to shoot it (provided I have the time, and can do so without endangering bystanders, etc).

I am commonly out walking with my moluccan cockatoo sitting on my shoulder... same reasoning would apply.

From prior experience, I don't own animals that are capable of injuring someone.

 

I don't know that I would use a firearm, but I would kill the dog. Stave in the ribs, open the belly, it will stop. A well developed pit, or 130# + Rott, I would probably shoot.

 

+1
When I go jogging I wear my razor sharp neck knife. My wife calls it Pit Bull repellent.

 

Here is some info I remember seeing on the MCRGO (Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners), Ask A Lawyer page.

Under Michigan law, any use of a firearm is an application of deadly force. Deadly force is legally permissible when it is proportional to the threat. Meaning, that deadly force may be used to prevent death, great bodily harm that could lead to death, or rape. It is entirely possible that an animal could do great bodily harm that could lead to death. So, it is possible that the use of a pistol against an attacking dog would be a justifiable use of force. Keep in mind that the circumstances would have to be such that you are in a place where you have a legal right to be, and that there is sufficient indication that your life is in danger when you fire. If you were to fire when the dog is too far away, or running away, or if you hit something other than the dog, or the dog is a toy poodle, you might face serious legal consequences. The key is that any use of force must be reasonable under the circumstances. I admire your restraint and think that the policy of not using our pistols unless we absolutely have to is the wise course of action.

While the answer contains statements of law and practical advice that are essentially correct, it is worth noting that dogs are covered by different laws than human beings. Under Michigan law, a dog is an item of personal property.

There is a statute in Michigan which states that "Any person...may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing, worrying, or wounding any livestock or poultry or attacking persons, and there shall be no liability on such person in damages or otherwise, for such killing."

However, there is another statute which states that "willfully and maliciously killing or injuring animals" is a felony punishable by up to 4 years in prison.

The practical advice given last week remains unchanged. Only use your pistol if you have to. If you or someone else is in danger of attack by an animal, use your pistol or other firearm to defend yourself and your loved ones.

From what I get out of this, My dog is legally property, and does not qualify as "livestock or Chicken." I don't think I'd would take the chance. I'd probably get hit with Unlawful Discharge, unless A round hit a bystander (even a ricochet), than I used deadly force to protect PROPERTY. NOT OK in MI.

I'd have to go man y mano with the dog. Even big dogs don't like getting punched in the head. Get on their back, hang on, punch, choke, pound his head on the ground. Don't use your gun UNTIL he turns on you. If you get bitten, you look so much more like the victim, protecting you own life.

 

I Will Defend Me and Mine...

My 127# Rhodesian Ridgeback (bigger than normal...vet weighed him this morning...) can handle himself...and if he should call on me for assistance...I'll be there...:AR15firing:

Stay armed...stay safe!

ret:urla9ub:

 

From what I get out of this, My dog is legally property, and does not qualify as "livestock or Chicken." I don't think I'd would take the chance. I'd probably get hit with Unlawful Discharge, unless A round hit a bystander (even a ricochet), than I used deadly force to protect PROPERTY. NOT OK in MI.

I'd have to go man y mano with the dog. Even big dogs don't like getting punched in the head. Get on their back, hang on, punch, choke, pound his head on the ground. Don't use your gun UNTIL he turns on you. If you get bitten, you look so much more like the victim, protecting you own life.

I had read that guidance from MCRGO website which somewhat prompted the question. Mainly because it didn't directly address the dog on dog situation. I am thinking your response is probably the most accurate for michigan, but it's a shame you have to watch your dog get bit and get involved to the point where you get bit yourself, to justify your defense.

 

Yeah, it sucks...Ok, new idea: We all go to Lawyer school and then run for County prosecuter...then we focus or prosecuting efforts on stuff that makes sense.:scratchchin:

 

I own two LARGE NEWFOUNDLAND dogs. Water rescue dogs. Think of a BIG BLACK St. Bernard. There are a couple of cousins in our neighborhood. A couple of Great Pyranees (sp) that look similar only white. BIG too. A couple of years ago, the lady who owned them was walking in our neighborhood when one of her dogs was attacked by an AKITA...a Japansese dog bred for war. That Akita grabbed hold of the dog's throat and tried to rip it open despite repeated attacks to fend it off by the lady who was using a tree limb. Another passerby tried a tire iron without much in the way of results. For some inexplicable reason, the Akita broke off it's attack and took off. The Great Pyraneese lived but for the rest of it's life was traumatized. The lady too. After that, I always carry a gun on my walks with the dogs. If my pups are grabbed in such a fashion...well those are my babies. I'd have to draw. I'd probably screw the muzzle into the attacking dogs ear and pull the trigger.

 

While my response would be different from yours (I haven't met a dog yet I coudn't take by hand, if I can get behind/on top of it like a jujitsu artist, which chould be easy if he's attacking something else), I won't fault you for your approach. We all must make decisions as to what consequences we are willing to pay for our actions. I know some people are close to their pets, but I've never had one that I'd risk jail time for.

 

I'll tell you what my daughter did here In MI she pulled her CCW gun a .357 and shot the POS animal. You are required by law to have your dog under your own personal control at all times, and if it is attacking then it is either...
A. you are being assaulted by the owner, or
B. the animal is out of control and a vicious threat. Pull your gun and kill the dog now!!!

Let me tell you up front I have been the victim of a so called puppy that viciously attacked me, as have my oldest daughter on a separate instance, dogs are dangerous, killers, and can inflict lethal damage in very short order. After their attack you can suffer wounds that will either heal very slowly or not at all requiring amputation.
I repeat Do not take that chance it is only a dog if it's owner cared for it, it would not be loose attacking you and your life is more important than someone pet!

 

if fido doesnt stop with a good swift kick to the face then fido is getting some 9mm doggie treats.my shepard and boxer are always leashed and under my care and custody but if by chance they got out and for whatever reason decided to go postal for whatever reason even if i was not there i would not fault anyone for shooting them if they feel so threatened.it is our duty to control our pets they will always be animals and respond with instinct rather than rational. thank god mine like to gaurd the house via the couch this they excel at and playing with the kids.

 

Here in VA I'm aware of a couple incidents where shooting the dog did not go over well in court. One involved a bicyclist that was being chased and nipped at by a dog. Shot the dog while still on the bike. Judge said shooting was not justified because he could have gotten away.
OTOH, I have had great success OCing a dog that seemed intent on causing me harm. I would posit that OCing a dog v. shooting it should be a very positive experience as it does not open you up to as much potential liability or criminal charges.
Just another reason to carry OC all the time.

 

Here in VA I'm aware of a couple incidents where shooting the dog did not go over well in court. One involved a bicyclist that was being chased and nipped at by a dog. Shot the dog while still on the bike. Judge said shooting was not justified because he could have gotten away.
OTOH, I have had great success OCing a dog that seemed intent on causing me harm. I would posit that OCing a dog v. shooting it should be a very positive experience as it does not open you up to as much potential liability or criminal charges.
Just another reason to carry OC all the time.

I tried that on a vicious dog once, was about as effective as tap water in a dime store squirt gun, it may or may not work for you but plain old Ammonia in that squirt gun is more effective

I think anyone here would use the gun to protect self, but this thread was originally started regarding the protection of your own dog. Which, by Michigan law, is property.

True but you are still legally required to have it under your control at all times, if it goes on the attack you can legally defend and that includes shooting it. Believe me I know BTDT the police take a very dim view of a dog attacking anything period, especially after the rash of dog attacks last fall.

 

pepper spray.... the OTHER white meat

 

Friends (husband and wife) were walking on the beach with their dog when a American Staffordshire terrier attacked the dog (an aging, monstrously-large rottweiler mix). No amount of kicking to the Staffie's head or underbelly did a damned thing. Let me repeat: zero damage from the kicking, which consisted of a dozen hard kicks by a 165-lb athletic adult, right in the head, ribs, balls. The dog just glanced up as if to say "... what's that, a mosquito bite?" When its owner came up, it finally let go. Sad to say, I think they still go out unarmed much of the time.

"Stave in its ribs"? Maybe. On a muscular, strong dog ... likely not.

I'm not able to put up concerted physical resistance for long (due to injury). A large, aggressive or dangerous dog can certainly do damage to an adult, even an athletic one. It would be very damaging to me, in a severe attack. No way will I allow that to continue. When I go out, I carry, both gun and blade. I'd like to hope that either could be brought to bear, if attacked. Have yet to have that happen, beyond simple, aggressive growling and posturing. I wouldn't have any problems with terminating a deadly assault by an animal on me. "Property"? Sure, from one narrow point of view. But it's my life in the balance. No question about the response: whatever is necessary to terminate the threat.

 

I think anyone here would use the gun to protect self, but this thread was originally started regarding the protection of your own dog. Which, by Michigan law, is property.

 

For those of you that picked the "Shoot Fido First Option" I would encourage you to take a look at the AZ Vs Fish Trial.

Remember, that all started over some dogs. The situation then escalated to human on human. True, no dogs or people were attacked, just barked at, but the "potential for attack" was there.

My use of force model for dogs goes something like this:

Voice
Body Position
Chemical Agent
Knife
Gun

In today's "PC" climate I would much rather use OC than have to explain myself for shooting somebodies "loveable lapdog" (sarcasm intended). I will use a knife on a dog, messy but very effective, because if the dog already has me down I want to make sure I don't do a through and through shot, or God forbid, miss the intended target.


The firearm is a LAST RESORT, and I will use it only as such. As far as a guy on a bicycle being able to get away from a dog, that Judge is an IDIOT! Dogs can run faster than we can pedal.

Biker :tumbleweed:

 

I tend to agree with Sheldon...just shoot the dog if it appears that it is going to attack you. Do not ever let a dog bite you! Shoot it to the ground and keep your distance until it is no longer a threat. The after affects of a dog bite can be devastating physically and emotionally. And call the police immediately.

If you don't recognize agression in various breeds of dogs you may want to read up on it.

Also, talk to medical personnel who have taken care of dog bite victums. My advice...don't be one!

 

I was in this situation last week. I had my G19 on my person at the time. While inspecting a house, the neighbors dog (retriever mix)charged across the yard barking and growling. It crossed into my clients yard, and I glanced around. There was a spade shovel propped against the house not 3 feet from me. I grabbed the shovel- ready for battle. When I raised it and scolded the dog, it backed off and retreated into its yard.

I could have shot the dog, but drawing wasn't really needed. If the dog closed to bite, I would have taken its head off with the shovel. It's hard to explain, but I just knew the situation didnt require a gun yet.

 

For those of you who think taking on a large dog is easy... well, I've seen what their jaws can do to a doorknob. They can crush metal. If those jaws get around your wrist, the hand it's attached to probably won't ever work right again. If a dog is attacking my dog, I have no reason to believe that it won't attack me next since it's already shown aggression. If necessary the attacker will go down. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

 

Dogs are like guns.....they should be under your constant control, care, and supervision. We have some ignorant folks in my area that allow their Rot to run free. I have a three year old son and if it even comes anywhere close to him while he is playing in our yard I will shoot it stone cold dead.

 

I posted my thread here after my son was attacked by the neighbors German Shepherd...things I've learned:

Know your state laws: in VIRGINIA (and I'm only writing about VIRGINIA) unless the dog is been previously deemed "dangerous", the dog get the benefit of doubt, especially if on it's own property (commonly referred to the "one free bite law")

Know your county code/ordinances: in my county (and I'm writing about my county), I am permitted to use the amount of force *I* deem necessary to protect humans, livestock, and property (i.e. my dog) if a strange dog appears on my property. If I were in a park or bike path, similiar rules apply (I just can't quote them right now).

Carry all of the time: If the dog will bite unprovoked once, he/she will bite again. Unfortunately my neighbors haven't caught on to that yet.

 

If it ever did come to that remember this... Finger tips and Tricia and squeeze real hard, regardless of how big or massive the head pressure here can and will collapse the airway, no breathe no live dog.

 

My use of force model for dogs goes something like this:

Voice
Body Position
Chemical Agent
Knife
Gun

Yeah...it all sounds great in theory.

In the one attack that I was involved in all except the gun would have been a waste of time.

Trying to use anything but deadly force on a big dog will get you hurt.
Why take the chance ?

Each situation will be different and each situation must be judged to be benefit of the person, not the dog. While I have no doubt that some solutions will work on some dogs, and shooting a dog may not be needed in that particular case, I have known of several cases where anything less than several quickly placed shots would have resulted in a lot of time spent in pain and recuperation.

My thoughts on this are simple.

Why should I take the risk of getting bit while I am carrying a gun?

 

Yeah...it all sounds great in theory [re Voice, Body Position, Chemical Agent, Knife, Gun]. In the one attack that I was involved in all except the gun would have been a waste of time. Trying to use anything but deadly force on a big dog will get you hurt. Why take the chance ?

Because there is pain and then beyond that there's damage. Not all dogs are a threat to life, no matter how much we dislike being bitten.

I've had a large, aggressive, athletic (and bloody strong!) rottweiler force me to toe the line. I've never felt so submissive in all my life. Nothing short of a gun to the head would have stopped him, had he attacked.

I have had one instance of an actual attack by a medium-sized dog (mutt), where he was all over me before I could react. Couldn't have gotten to a gun easily, even had I been carrying then. He bit my hand and held on, with my fingers fully inside his mouth ... so I rammed my hand down the back of his throat as hard as I could muster. The dog immediately halted his attack, withdrew and quickly left. Anything smaller than that dog (large-ish blue heeler type) can be kicked, thrown, bent or rammed-down-the-throat to decent effect. Won't work with some dogs, sure. But then, few dogs are the size, strength or aggressiveness to actually kill or be a threat of doing so.

I'm not mentioning this to suggest one should choose the less-than-lethal path. What I am saying is that the lethal-force path may well not be necessary or justified, no matter how fearful of sharp bites one may be. Depends on the dog and the situation, absolutely.

 

I'm not mentioning this to suggest one should choose the less-than-lethal path. What I am saying is that the lethal-force path may well not be necessary or justified, no matter how fearful of sharp bites one may be. Depends on the dog and the situation, absolutely.

Agreed.

I had to blast a large pit bull awhile back. He had had his vocal cords removed so as not to alert whatever he was attacking. He was a trained guard dog owned by some known drug dealers.

I simply did not have time to do anything except draw and fire and considered myself lucky to do that. The dog died and my feet.I had blood on my boots. It was too close for comfort.

Same situation...with a rather fierce Chihuahua that wanted to eat me.. a simple kick sent him flying across the yard.He hit the ground running... the other way. End of threat...and realistically not much of one at that.

A serious dog needs to be dealt with seriously.One may not have the luxury of time to think about it, then draw,then fire.

I was almost too slow once. It aint happening again.