What a coincidence.
I was just playing around with this exact forward of the hip position today in front of the mirror before leaving the house.
It was so comfortable and concealed I forgot I even had it on after jumping ( I wish ) into the Ram and driving down to and walking into a no, no, big no no carry establishment. Oops.
Hybrid BlackArch Protos-M holster and a P365xl. I moved it back to that forward of the hip position and really liked it.

 

If it's comfortable, doesn't print, and is accessible for a faster draw, it sounds like a winner to me.

 

What’s old is new again as many things are.
The late, great Bruce Nelson who designed the Summer Special rig knew a thing or two about carrying a fighting gun.
Sometimes we think AIWB or forward of the hip is a recent innovation by the hipster gun culture generation, but they have always been way behind.

Old Bruce, a great holster designer and accomplished lawman figured out ways to carry and made holsters to do it.

In a conversation with OD*, I learned that his Summer Special was designed for forward of the hip carry, and it was originally designed with only one belt loop.
This can be observed here in this cool old article from that period;
View attachment 478944

I thought I would give this a try today and found it to be extremely comfortable and highly concealable.
View attachment 478945

So comfortable and concealable, it works with a form fitting t shirt.
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View attachment 478946

For me this is a very comfortable way to carry. I carried the 1911 from daylight to dark today, and even had a burger at my favorite bar and grill totally concealed and comfortable.
It’s easy to access when seated, and is very easy to bend at the waist with without having to do the “ AIWB squat”.

Additionally, it works very well with a moderately stiff belt like the Blue Alpha, so you don’t feel like you have an iron band wrapped around your waist.

Highly recommend you give this a try.

Sometimes, past knowledge is more useful than current trends which are usually just old lessons with new twists.

How's the draw with that angle of carry? It looks like the wrist would be at an odd angle during the draw.

 

It is an odd angle for the wrist to bend. However it doesn’t present an issue for me, but it might for some people.

 

i have the galco copy of the milt sparks one. but at 4 o clock.
best place for me as i can angle towards the threat with my left foot forward and left hand up in the stop position and my right on the grip with now it being invisible. with the option of not brandishing and an instant draw.

with the left hand to stop a blow if he gets close in fast. and balanced position if pushed.

 

Funny I have been carrying like a gunslinger my whole life and did not know it.
Tried out a few different positions and holsters and settled on this position out of comfort, concealability with my wardrobe.
Interesting that the original only had one belt loop. My commander 1911 fits perfectly there even in a vehicle.

 

Interesting that the original only had one belt loop. My commander 1911 fits perfectly there eve4n in a vehicle.

Bruce Nelson's Summer Special had one belt loop. The early Milt Sparks Summer Special also had one belt loop. If I recall correctly, the Summer Special II reflects the advent of second belt loop, and probably some of the other minor changes.

The G. Wm. Davis Security was much like a Summer Special, but had two belt loops, a more-vertical cant, and a sweat guard. An LGS sold both Milt Sparks and Davis holsters. I opted for the Davis Security, by about 1990, when I started carrying a Colt Stainless Commander, my first reliable Commander, though my reliable full-sized 5” 1911, an early Springfield Armory Inc., acquired in the late Eighties, may have been what prompted me to buy the Davis Security prior to 1990.

 

I was carrying my Fusion 10mm Commander last week in the Simply Rugged pancake.

 

Now that’s a gun and caliber worthy of Bad Bob👍

 

“Liked!” Once upon a time, I possessed the magazine in which that article and images appeared. Ah, memories. Thanks, G-man!

Even before I saw that article, I read what Col. Jeff Cooper had written, about Bruce Nelson, and how he carried his Colt Commander forward of the hip, IWB.

An LGS of that day, Alexander Guns, in Houston, Texas, stocked G. Wm. Davis holsters, so, I bought the Security, which was an IWB with two belt loops. The cant was very subtle, such that the draw angle was almost vertical. The Sparks Summer Special of that time had only one loop, but it was fixed at a draw angle that I did not prefer, for slightly-forward of the hip carry. (More cant than the Davis Security.)

I stopped liking IWB carry more than twenty years ago, except for small-frame revolvers, mostly because my gimpy right shoulder stopped articulating very well, but, now that I have transitioned to left side “primary,” I may revisit IWB carry.

 

Mexican, with a holster.

 

Pretty much. That’s is one of the multiple things of the 1911 that appeals to me. Im not fixed or boxed in to a carry method or holster.
I can even carry it sans holster with a string loop tied to the belt, or just tuck it in my waistband for little walking of the dogs outside and don’t have to worry about shooting my junk off because the trigger isn’t protected.
Same thing with a revolver.

 

Not much new under the sun, is there?

 

I have carried a full size EAA witness 45acp, Sig P227 45acp and a Para commander 45acp that way in the summer special. All in the same holster as well. A well designed rig.

 

That's the position I have to use when I carry OWB. I'm one of those guys with a barrel chest, no hips and a flat butt. Gun or no gun I'm regularly having to adjust/pull my pants up. Carrying on my hip or behind it is a sure way for my pants to come down.

As for the confusion regarding Mexican carry...I thought it was termed that because Mexican revolutionaries would carry without a holster so if they encountered Federales they could ditch the pistol and then have no evidence that they had been carrying. Even an empty holster was considered enough proof of revolutionary activity for the Federales to arrest you. Hence no holster.

 

Old cops called that a 'belly gun'; on most builds a J frame or similar is pretty well concealed.


Larry

 

Inquiring minds want to know what holster that is, @G-man* .

 

It is a MSSS. ( Milt Sparks Summer Special) originally designed by Bruce Nelson.

 

In the movies and tv series they're always stuffing handguns inside the waistband without holsters.
You can call it Hollywood carry if you want.

 

In the movies and tv series they're always stuffing handguns inside the waistband without holsters.
You can call it Hollywood carry if you want.

Thank you. Perhaps I will. @Bad Bob, Hollywood carry?

 

I always thought that a Belly Gun was a gun that was best used at short distances, where you could reach out and shoot someone in the belly, not much further. Something with a short barrel, poor sights and a heavy trigger. And Mexican carry was a gun tucked under your belt without a holster, front or back, didn't matter.

Words seem to change over time. It used to be that a Mouse gun was small in size (tiny pocket gun) and small in caliber (22, 25, 32 at most). Lately it seems that people are calling any small gun, regardless of caliber, a mouse gun. At least, that's what I have seen. I think I remember someone referred to a G26 as a mouse gun.

I guess if an Elephant gun is used for shooting elephants, a mouse gun is for shooting meeces, right? I wouldn't shoot meeces with a 9mm... but that's just me.

 

many years back that thing you put in your pistol was called a clip. now people get all broken up if someone doesn't say magazine.
and originally a revolver was called a pistol. now it isn't.

i would like to know who gets to change these names.

 

Mexican carry.

 

Finally, we are getting somewhere!

 

So, is holstered forward of the hip the same as appendix inside the waistband carry?

 

No, it’s not as far forward as AIWB, and the muzzle is raked rearwards and under the protruding part of the hip bone. I would describe it as a 2:30 carry method vs the 12-1:00 position of AIWB, or 11-12 if you are a lefty.

 

they changed the names but used to be all designated by the clock so you knew exactly what someone was talking about.
that would be at 2 o clock.
most say anything towards the front is appendix. and if you have an accident you blow off your jewels instead of just barely missing your foot.

 

At the 2-2:30 position is where my appendix use to be.

 

Well, no appendix carry for you then-sorry!



Larry

 

1:30 to 1:45ish works best for me. The butt of my pistol tucks best there, any further forward and sitting becomes a problem. When seated, it pushes the whole rig up and out. How many have had their soft belly skin pinched between the pistol and holster when reholstering? Ouch, got to be careful not to let that happen.

 

"What’s old is new again as many things are."

Just 33 years ago this month I took Mas Ayoob's 4-day LFI-1 class. Most of the time, Mas carried a full-size Beretta 92 in what appeared to be a Summer Special well forward of the hip bone, and it was easily concealed with an unzipped down vest.