Personally I think that every time you park your car to get out, a small window of opportunity exists for a BG , because you are at a more vulnerable situation than usual and your SA has to be up before you park. I know coming home at night in the country, and parking in the garage my wife and I are vulnerable to someone stepping around the corner behind us just as we are pulling in the garage. As we approach the house our SA is wide open, looking for anything out of place. However, my g27 is in my hand, while my wife is watching from a different view in the car and ready to give me a heads-up while I finish parking.

Your friend was lucky. In our rural environment my wife and I will likely face a BG with lethal intentions.

 

Well (as usual) it depends on the situation, but I think it this instance them telling you to get into the car and drive you to an ATM is a lot different than someone telling you to get into a car on the side of the road...I would be inclined to "play along" at first if I felt I couldn't get my gun into action and perhaps try to find a way to draw in the car or while exiting the car at the ATM....can't really say for sure though because ever situation is different, but I would certainly attempt to draw and shoot since I will assume that anyone that is pointing a gun at me has intentions to kill me when they are done with me and I will not go down without a fight. At first glance I think this is one of a minority of situations where an immediate and overwhelming response (something I'm generally in favor of) might not be as good as waiting a few minutes to play your cards right.

 

I think it starts with not parking where there are people around. If there is anybody outside standing/walking around near where I plan to park, I move to a different spot. I know that I'm vulerable in the car, and possibly more so for the second it takes me to get out. I'll park several rows over or a bit furthur away. Note that this isn't in response to a confirmed threat, where I would just be outta there. This is just my "yellow and a half," and allows me to be on my feet, watching, and on more even ground.

 

Not only getting out of your car, but into it as well. When my son was 6 mo old, a scruffy looking man approached from no where.
He got between my elderly mother and me. He forced his self into my space as I was putting my son in his car seat. He wanted money.
Then when I told him I didn't have money, he wanted a ride to the gas station to get gas because he was empty. I motioned for my mother to get in the front passenger seat and threw the keys in the front seat. As soon as her door closed, BG started to push in. Well, you don't mess with a woman who has a small child, they tend to turn rabid. I don't remember what I said to him, but it made him back out of the car enough for me to get some room, then I pushed him back and closed the door on his hand as I jumped back in. Amazingly, his car had enough gas to make it out of the parking lot.
Called DH, who got there in two minutes. He called it in but no one found him. Can you believe that it took another incident after this for me to pursue cwp?:duh:
The world is getting more dangerous, it is time for us to get smarter!

 

It has been said as well...If you are 'jacked'..never go to a second location with your assailants,avoid it at the point of HTH,the reasoning is the second location is were your body will be found...
Iam glad that your friend made it with just a little cash missing and is safe now,a close one for sure.

 

Indeed. I won't be forced into my car. I won't go somewhere, where it's more 'quiet'. Then again, I will likely shoot back, as well.

As I teach my kids, 'MAKE NOISE'. Armed or not. "HELP! HELP!", etc, if you have to shoot, witnesses will likely remember you calling for help.

 

I don't know what I would do if someone got the drop on me. If there were people around I might yell gun or something and run behind a car if cover was close. I think you would have to play it by ear and just try to keep your head. I have often wondered if looking over the BG's shoulder and saying " excuse me, Officer!" would give me enough time to move to cover or draw and fire my weapon. I carry a glock with one in the chamber so no safety to mess with. I might be able to pull it off, might not.

 

That's a bad situation to be in. Even with good SA, you can't be sure you'll see everything. If the BG's are behind a car or otherwise out of sight, they could seemingly materialize where you thought nobody was.

If you do end up on the wrong end of a gun with demands being made, the best thing I can think of is to get to cover as soon as humanly possible while screaming for help. In a parking lot, unless you're boxed in, cover (or at least concealment, depending on the weapon being used) is everywhere. You just have to get to it. Chances are the BG isn't going to pursue you, action-movie-style, but will run as soon as his plan breaks down. If he does chase you, you still have a better chance with some steel between you and him.

If this involves throwing your wallet (your dummy wallet, naturally) or backing up slowly, telling him not to shoot you, until you have an escape route, by all means, do it.

I would avoid getting back in the car like the plague. My thinking is he will either just shoot me in the car, or take me somewhere and shoot me there. Not to mention my mobility and access to my gun is much more limited in a car.

 

Your friend needs to make friends with the boys in Dam Neck, GA, who visit Jack occassionally.:wink:

Loss of situational awareness. Lots of variables, but if I thought they had the slightest intention of killing me...

 

Damn, that's a bad situation. I'm glad your friend is alive.

Its been said many times - NEVER GET IN THE CAR. I'm not sure how a person could follow this rule when a gun is pointed at your chest, and hopefully I'll never need to make the decision. However, I changed from back pocket to front pocket carry due to this kind of scenario. While it appears that I'm retrieving my car keys, I'm pulling my gun. I carry with one in the pipe and there's no safety to mess with. Point and shoot.

Of course, there's a big difference between mental preparation and physical training at the range - and what happens in real life.

Hopefully the cops nail the criminals and they spend a few years in prison for armed robbery, kidnapping and felony possession of a firearm (10/20/life!!!).

 

First, let me say that I am never, EVER, getting into a car with someone who's pointing a gun at me.. Absolutely not. For all I know they are just putting me in the car to shoot me so that blood doesn't get everywhere and so that they can easily transport my body and dump it and not get caught trying to wrestle a dead body in a car.

ABSOLUTELY NOT getting into a car by force.

Number two: Because I've heard of criminals doing odd things while arriving and departing in cars, I have a strict habit of locking my doors as I'm both exiting and entering the vehicle so that if anything happens, all I have to do is close the door and I'm either safely locked in, or we're all locked out.

Now, I don't know how your friend was approached by these two men, if it was one from the front and one from behind or both of them just walked up to him, but I'll use my imagination and try to play out how I think it would have gone down with me.

As I'm getting out of my car I've already locked my doors. I close the door, turn to start walking to the mall and find two men approaching me from the front with a gun demanding I get back in the car and take them somewhere. I have my keys in one hand and my purse in the other. They also have the drop on me.

Because I'm at the front of the vehicle, my best cover would be the engine of either my vehicle or a vehicle next to me. I have a small advantage in that because of the cars, we are in a funnel. We can only move back and forth, no side to side is available.

I would throw my purse and keys at the shooter as hard as I could while instantly moving for cover of the nearest engine (hopefully my own because it's big and would provide good cover). I would draw, and if they aren't already running in another direction, I'm firing. They threatened me with a deadly weapon, I'm certainly afraid for my life, that's enough for me to return the favor.

Whether I hit them or not, if they start running, it's over. I'm getting the best description of them I can, checking around me for other possible threats while calling the police (P.S. I never keep my cell phone in my purse, it goes on my body somewhere, so that I don't have to leave my cover to retrieve my purse to call the police). Depending on how many shots I fired I may do a tactical reload as I know myself well enough to know I'll want to be doing something: with the adrenaline and the fear and everything, I'd be as fidgety as a mouse on steroids.

If I felt that all was clear I might move to safety, as I don't want to risk having them come back for revenge (provided they aren't both on the ground).

Now, that is the ideal situation, but nothing is ever ideal, is it. If they are too close or have approached from both directions and have me cornered, well, to borrow a phrase from PAX, I'm fighting like a cornered cat.

Let's say the gunman is in front of me, the non-gunman is behind. The gunman is my greatest concern because he's the biggest threat. I've just gotten out of my car and shut the door, the car's now locked. He tells me to get back in and drive them somewhere. I tell him to back up a few spaces so I can open my door. When I open the door I'm going to swing it open as wide and hard as I can and drop behind it for both a block and at least some cover, as which point I'm moving back hard and fast to bring all my body weight into my elbow and into the threat behind me. With him, at least distracted, it's time for my gun. I'll draw, and assess which is my greater threat. The guy with the gun may already have ran or he may be trying to get past the blocking door or he may have already succeeded, or he's making shots of his own. If he's on the warpath towards me he's getting shot at, the other guy is probably going to get a bullet too unless he's running because he's between me and cover and that's a bad place to be when I'm fighting for my life.

When all is said and done, again, I'm calling the police and probably doing a tactical reload while shivering and praying (provided, of course, that I'm still alive and have the breath in my lungs to pray).

No matter which scenario you throw at me, I'm NOT getting in that car. I know all too well what can happen once a bad guy gets you to their destination. I'll die fighting before I go through that again.

 

Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirt.

My encounter came in the eraly 90s in Daytona Beach, FL while attending school and deliverring pizza. I pulled into the parking spot in the housing projects and was immediately blocked into the spot by another car. The passenger of that car jumped out and ran up to the passenger door of my car to yank it open. There had been several kidnap/carjack/forced ATM withdrawls in recent weeks and a fair share hed ended up with beaten and in at least one case dead victims even after full compliance.

I kept the doors locked always and when the guy at the passenger door looked up, most likely to order me to open the door and probably threaten me with a weapon, he was staring into the 2" J frame I had drawn, then the light from the 6 D-Cell maglight I took on deliveries. He turned and vacated the area immediatly. The car blocking me in tore off. If his hands had enterred my field of view, they were below sight, with a gun I would have shot him through the window. I never saw the driver exit the vehicle.

The key, as stated is to watch your surroundings. If I had not done so I would be stuck going along for the ride and praying for an opportuntiy to either fight back or make a break for it. An ounce of preparation is worth a pound of improvisation.

The second main item is, have a gun. Big shout out to Superhouse15, also a board member, for lending me his model 36 S&W while my 1911 was off being hard chromed!

 

Hey Everyone.....Thanx for sounding off on this. The predominate theme here is mostly to not get back in that car! I agree......and hope none of us ever have to deal with this kind of situation. Everybodys views are welcome and enlighting. My buddy and myself will take something positive from your responses. I'm all for expanding my knowledge curve. Again.....Thanks
Goldie

 

My buddy arrived at a local mall in J'ville, FL to meet his GF and catch a movie.

Hmmm... Let me guess... Regency Square Mall at the corner of Monument and Atlantic BLVD? I lived near there in Jax when I was stationed at NAVSTA Mayport.

That mall is NOT in a good area! Or the Orange Park Mall over by NAS Jax? The "Westside" is a pretty bad area, too. Then again, most areas around Navy bases tend to be pretty bad...

 

fludy.....your first guess was right.....Regency Square. I'm not the happiest of father/husbands when I go there......which isn't often, but sometimes I end up there with the wife and kids for 'whatever'. Made the trip last weekend for the "tax free"--"back-to-school" sales and left with much stuff... :gah: ....just very tiring maintaining "yellow" on a swivel for several hours. Even a constant presence by JSO dosn't curb some of the BS and 'banger' activity.

 

I'm with Lima.

No way in the hell I'm allowing myself to be removed from the scene.
They can have everything on my person including my underwear but damn if they are removing my person from the premises.

I'll fight like they just slapped my mother and if I get shot well that'll suck but I'm not going anywhere, period. The option does not exist in my mind.

- Janq

 

I like Lima's response too.

But as I get older in this arena, I'm getting quite reluctant to put my intentions in writing to "what if" scenarios especially in public forums. I have this nagging thought that if I am ever in a shooting situation, someone will dig it up and use it against me!

Be situationally aware and be prepared! Practice practice practice! :biggrin2:

 

I always hear people post about not saying anything about their tactics, saying what guns they have, etc. Who the heck is going to know who "Thumper" (or anyone else for that matter) is? Just don't be stupid and use a real name. Do you really think some DA is going to come to this obscure site and scour EVERY post for something similar to a situation that "went down"?

You really think he's going to be able to get a warrant for an IP address with NO name, motive or proof?

 

Bad situation.

Don't really know what I'd do, and maybe I'm being impulsive here, but I'm thinking that if it's me, it's go-time.

 

I always hear people post about not saying anything about their tactics, saying what guns they have, etc. Who the heck is going to know who "Thumper" (or anyone else for that matter) is? Just don't be stupid and use a real name. Do you really think some DA is going to come to this obscure site and scour EVERY post for something similar to a situation that "went down"?

You really think he's going to be able to get a warrant for an IP address with NO name, motive or proof?

This is straying off topic. Let's not take this any further in this thread.

 

Okay, but have you ever heard of any evidence from a gun forum that resulted in a prosecution? I'm not talking about the bangers and other losers on MySpace and those other sites where they post pictures, videos and actually brag about crimes they've committed. Even the infamous internet "Gunkid"...all his postings over at Glocktalk didn't even bring him down. His ex-wife did. :hand10:

 

your best bet stands in the parking lot in my training we were told and retold the car is the worst place to fight. Get out and stand your ground.

 

I keep my gun on my hip or on my back. I always have a round in the chamber, and 6 more in the clip. I always assume they'll want my wallet or keys. I'd stay calm, say i'm getting my wallet pull out my Glock quickly, shoot immediately before he could respond, then disarm him.

 

G36? If so, darned good pistol! :hand10:

 

Yup, I saw a real nice, almost new one at the gun store. The guy told me a state trooper had it before me and only put two clips thru it. I only paid $575 for it. I couldn't pass that up :blink:

I love it. I used to carry a 9mm EAA Witness, and its ok in the winter time when I have a lot of clothes on, but in the summer when its harder to conceal I wanted to get something new.

 

How's the reliability? I've heard the G36 can be finicky with some types of ammo.

 

This story made my blood run cold...icy cold. Especially in light of the fact that a police officer murdered last night in the county just to the north. He was following a "suspicious" vehicle into the parking lot of an all night Publix grocery store. The car had barely stopped (shown by the store surveillance cameras) before a man leaped from the car already firing a handgun. At least 10 rds were fired. The man kept advancing as he fired. At least five rounds hit the officer who never had a chance to draw or call for help. The last shot that struck him was fired from a range of four feet.

The liklihood that we as civilians will face such a near ambush situation are extremely remote. The cop was doing his job by literally looking for trouble so we citizens won't stumble into a similar problem with these same wolves.

Still, according to the OP, the men ran at his friend with a gun already drawn. I'm already shaking as I contemplate my possible actions.

I submit that any time a stranger rushes at you in a darkened parking lot where there are other potential sources of "help" (should he claim to be seeking help instead of having evil intentions if he makes it to trial) can and should automatically be treated as hostile. In this case, I'm thinking proximity is my friend. The critical issue is whether I'm fully out of the car or still transitioning when a firearm is presented. If the BG is close enough to touch and I'm still in transition with part of my lower body still in the car, maybe I grab my chest and fake a heart attack. It's kinda obvious from the grey in my goatee that I'm no spring chicken. As I hit the ground I begin to "convulse" and roll so that I can safely draw. My only hope is that I'm in the dark and there is even darker shadow next to the car. Maybe they'll take off with the realization that if I have a heart attack while they're robbing me and they get caught and I die...it's felony murder for them both. But say they're not so streetwise.

As I said, in my way of thinking (comes from Aikido) proximity favors my situation. So I drop to the ground and they move to follow so they can lift my wallet, steal my keys and be gone. As they close I'm in the process of the draw. If they're close enough to lift my wallet and keys they're close enough for me to grab by the clothing...maybe to gasp MY HEART...HELP....ME.....as I shove my gun into his gut and pull the trigger several times. The muzzle blast alone is enough to avulse flesh (rip it open). Then I shove the closest hit target to the side and engage the next...putting one or more into his buddy. The big danger from shooting at literal contact is that flesh might foul the action and cause a jam.

Everything I am...all my training has ingrained in me the necessity of acting when confronted. I don't freeze. I don't hesitate. I've already made the crucial decisions of morality and law. It might be shown later that I could have made better decisions, but I'll stand or fall on my actions of the moment. That's just me. As was Patton's philosophy: A good plan executed with extreme violence right now is better than a perfect plan tomorrow. I'm at peace with that.

 

You never know if the BG is one who dosen't want to leave witnesses or not until its is to late. I think I would have my engine running and my hand on my gun especially if I had to park a ways out. I would leave the engine running until I had checked the area out.

 

Where in Orlando lets you have that kind of space?



My daughter used to manage a store in Millennium Mall (now she's managing a bigger store for the same firm here in Miami) and when I would visit, I could never find a parking space for my minivan that affords the tactical advantages of which you speak. 'Course the handling characteristics of my minivan are more similar to your average aircraft carrier....but the parking spaces leave a lot to be desired.

Do you think that if you've been specifically targeted for a robbery they're going to let you spot them until you're parked, engine off and you're transitioning to the pavement? Remember, the advantage is almost always on the side of the hunter....

 

I like the " gasp MY HEART...HELP....ME....." approach... I've thought about this tactic before, and even practiced a few times, "while no one was watching" of course!! :rofl:

 

I'm getting tired and didn't read all of the posts.

So yell at me if this was already mentioned, I deserve it. But I bet no one mentioned these tactics. NEVER just drive into a parking lot and park without looking around first. Drive around first and surveill the situation, looking for anyone suspicious. And never immediately get out of the car. Take another look around. Other tactics include always backing into a parking space so you can make a quick getaway. This tactic saved my car and maybe my life once. A (stupid) friend (actually just someone I knew from the crowd I hung around with) was parked in a lot in an area that had their share of gangs. I backed in next to him. All of a sudden a gang armed with chains (this was in the 70's) came out of nowhere. Also always leave your car running. I punched the gas of my big V8 and just made it out of danger. The other kid got his windows broken.

 

No yells. Some giggling...

So yell at me if this was already mentioned, I deserve it. But I bet no one mentioned these tactics. NEVER just drive into a parking lot and park without looking around first. Drive around first and surveill the situation, looking for anyone suspicious. And never immediately get out of the car. Take another look around. Other tactics include always backing into a parking space so you can make a quick getaway. This tactic saved my car and maybe my life once.

In Miami FL finding a parking space at any major mall is like a post apocalyptic event: The Road Warrior. Sure I'll cruise the area....looking for a space big enough to handle my NIMITZ class minivan without too much manuevering. I will back into a spot if I can get the angles right. I'm pretty good on knowing the exact dimensions of my car and on relying on the side mirrors.

I'm always in Condition Yellow and I'm pretty good at spotting the movements that seem to mirror my own. Of course having taught in the inner city for the last 12 years, plus my time as a state Parole and Probation Officer I know predator behavior pretty well. If my spidey sense tingles I'll identify the reasons just as I always do.

Don't get me wrong: What you say makes excellent street sense for everybody. It's just that sometimes....life intrudes. That's why Condition Yellow exists.:image035:

 

well said exsoldier (your first post). "fortune favors the bold."

as for the OP, SA is key to leveraging that fortune.