I think he is right.

 

It is difficult to say, but I have never seen or heard of a drug dealer handcuffing the briefcase to themselves.

True this could be like you say a drug bust or it could be something worse.

911 would be a safe bet and stay low just in case.

Be safe!

 

If I am not in danger, no way I am going to draw.

 

Exactly.

One thing I always keep in the back of my mind is that if I do have to draw, I may need to deal with another CCW who arrives upon scene thinking I am the villain. We could be either person in such a scenario, and there are an infinite array of such scenarios.

Be ready to make holes at any moment, but know that you know the situation before you break out the hole maker. Remember, if you ever have to make holes, absolutely justified or not, a lot of people are going to ask you a lot of questions. Having to use the phrase "I thought..." more than zero times is a 100% guaranteed bad day.

I thought =) I would offer an example of how "I thought" sounds.

Investigator: Why did you make holes?

Not Good Response: I thought he was going to kill me.

Perhaps Better Response: He we going to kill me.

Best Response: I need to speak with a lawyer.

Always obey the police, but take great care with your words. For those who have never been in mortal danger, even if you have had training for such, the shock of such can put you on Mars. Your words are evidence, even if misspoken while confused and or emotional.

This video is 48 minutes long, but very important information for CCW holders, and citizens in general, regarding making statements to police. It could mean the difference between a bad day and the worst day of your life.

 

I think your instructor was right. It's time to be a good witness.

 

If he's not yelling at me and pointing his gun in my face then I'm just a nobody but I will call 911

 

He's obviously abducting that briefcase and holding it against its will; I'd shoot him.

Or just listen to your instructor who has the better plan.

 

I'd say that's good advice. Don't get involved. In my class, we were given another scenario:

You walk out of Wal Mart and out to your car. On your way, you see a commotion and look in time to see someone in a panic trying to pull away in a car when another man pulls the door open and is beating the hell out of the driver. Get involved? Shoot?

Call the police. What if the person behind the wheel is the carjacker and the person beating him senseless is the owner of the car standing his ground? Things to think about, and all the more reason to be very selective when it comes to your "manifesto" of who you're trying to protect by carrying. As for me: I will always know myself, my wife, and my kids are not the bad guy. Anyone else: you may never know who's who until everything's sorted out.

 

I agree to stay out of it at this point and call 911 but what if after looking a little closer you realized that the man with the briefcase is one of your good childhood friends that you haven't seen since highschool graduation 25 years ago? Do you move in closer to get a better idea of the situation and possibly get yourself involved or stand down and be a witness from afar?

 

You ain't the cavalry charging over the hill. Take cover and call 911. While the US Army might like to advertise its "army of one," if that one is you and you get shot, there ain't no army at all.

 

Exactly.

 

The idea is not to go off half cocked. My instructor had some similar scenarios. You're in the mall parking lot when you see a man trying to force a young child into a car. The child is screaming "I DON'T WANT TO GO!! I DON'T WANT TO GO!!" You draw your gun and approach. The man sees you approaching and also draws a gun. You shoot first. Thankfully, cameras in the mall parking lot have recorded the whole incident so you'll have evidence to back up your account of the attempted abduction that you prevented. When the police arrive, you learn that the man you shot was the child's father and the child was throwing a tantrum. Now, what do you do?

 

I'm calling 911 and being a good witness.

 

I agree.....better to be alive than dead and you are not in danger till you tip your haqnd. Better to be safe and be a good witness than dead or an innocent life maybe dead. You really do not know the situation.

 

His answer was, call 911 and do not draw your gun.

Almost certainly, yes. Without sufficient information about a situation, it gets very difficult to know who's in the right and who's in the wrong.

Take, for example, a violent armed robbery in progress in the store where you're waiting in line at the register. You see the whole thing unfold from the start, and you know for a fact that the violence being perpetrated is wrong, and you know the perpetrator is in the wrong. No two ways about it.

There are plenty of other situations where it's clearly a violation being forced on another. But is that situation truly one in which the innocent are in immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm (the Deadly Force Triangle, AOJ)? Hard to know, unless you know the facts.

 

My rules of thumb:

1. If you can avoid getting involved, avoid and call 911.

2. If you can't avoid getting involved, call 911 and try your best not to get a gun involved.

3. If you can't do either of the first two things, call 911 and try to stay alive.

4. If you can't call 911, yell like hell for someone else to do it.

5. Always remember that calling 911 comes first whenever possible.

6. When you reach 911, follow their instructions if at all possible.

7. If #1 - #6 aren't applicable.....focus on the last four words of #3.

 

I put it in a much more simple form, Speed draw your cell, and use 911 before you speed draw and use 1911.

 

I would put on my sash and badge. Drawing both my pistols I would confront said individual and issue harsh commands. Wait..never mind.

 

911. Nuf said.

 

I'm with BKCo1 (sorry if I typoed your moniker). I would put on my cowboy hat, climb on my horse, put the reins in my mouth and ride across the street with both of my Winchesters blazing. Oh, wait...that was John Wayne and I'm not him. Sometimes I forget.

911 and stay the hell out of the way.

 

Sounds unanimous!

Draw your cell phone first. Keep an eye on the situation from a safe distance. When the cops arrive wait for the smoke to clear and if they (the cops) approach you and ask, offer your observations, knowing that eye witness testimony (even yours) is notoriously unreliable, because of unavoidable built in bias.

Beyond that stay out of the way.

 

It's all about Defensive Carry not Rescue Carry.

 

His answer was, call 911 and do not draw your gun.

Yep.

 

My gun is for the protection of life for me and my love ones period.

 

To the batmobile. They have all sorts of neat stuff in there. No wait I have bat mace on my utility belt. No really stay low call 911 and be a good witness. If danger comes your way RUN!!!. If it follows you take care of it. Stay safe.

 

The briefcase is clearly being held against its will and the guy with gun is just trying to liberate it from the well dressed rich guy...shoot the rich guy and set the briefcase free that way the President and the liberal media can spin the narrative as "evil rich guys would rather die while clutching their valuables than give their fair share to the less fortunate.":wink:

 

My class instructor made a very good point. No matter what the scenario, he said, "Is it worth dying for?". And only you can answer that.

 

Another thought is like to this ^^^^:

"Is the need to intervene so immediate that you are willing to spend your best remaining years in the slammer for it if you get it wrong (or it gets spun wrong)?"

Immediate danger to my family will bring an affirmative, immediate danger to an obvious innocent MIGHT bring an affirmative, but in the scenario presented... nope.

 

Damn Bk you beat me to it.

 

In the scenario...don't get involved physically...it could very well be a LEO issue with shoulder weapon LEOs protecting the jean wearing undercover LEO...you pull a gun and one of hte shoulder weapon guys may reach out and touch you !!

Besides, you guys are CHL holders not law enforcement officers. 9-1-1 and be the best witness you can be...