[slimjim]

I'd also like to thank the moderators for allowing a thread like this. It has been long overdue.
It is important that potential customers understand what they can expect when ordering from those mentioned.
I am thankful that we may have such an informative forum to share.
It is about time that these guys are held accountable, that they are no longer being pampered and protected.

Brommeland

I really don't have much to add that hasn't been said already. I placed an order and paid for 3 holsters & 2 mag pouches back in March 06.
This past month I requested a refund from Gary, which was promptly issued.
I wasted close to 2 years waiting for an order, which I believed would unlikely be delivered anytime in the near future.
What really pissed me off with Gary, was when I talked to the guy at Coal Creek.
I asked him if they had a certain Max-Con in stock, he told me to call back later that week.
That he was expecting a sizable order from Brommeland.
I specifically asked if he gets many deliveries from Gary.
I was told they put their orders 3 months in advance and then they get them.
Here I am an individual customer who paid for 3 holsters and 2 mag pouches over 19 months ago and I still don't have my order.
Gary claimed Coal Creek placed their order in over 26 months ago and that he doesn't play favorites.
When I placed my order back on March 1st 06, I was originally told..."I'm not too backed up right now, this should go out in a few weeks".
I've since watched countless people receive their orders, esp. those who ordered Service Grade holsters after he started that line. I was told on numerous occasions that my holster was done and would be shipped.
I've heard things like..."I'm looking at your holster right now".
First delay had to do with the Def-Con reconstruction, then Service grade holsters, then supply issues, back problems, etc. etc.
I literally called for a brief update every 3-4 months, hardly excessive.
I am squared away right now, as I am no longer doing business with Brommeland.
It is a shame because he truly is a master craftsmen.

 

[USPnTX]

As I sit here typing this I have waited for my Def Con concealment holster for 15 months.
I was told that the wait time was 12 - 16 weeks when I initially ordered.
After five months went by I called to be told that my holster was to be made in the next batch which would be started in the next week.
I have been told that no less than four times.
One of those times was "I'm looking at your holster and it will be shipped in two weeks". Alas, I have not seen a holster yet.
To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.
Pure and simple, I have been lied to.
I'm not sure what to make of the Coal Creek Armory fiasco but it does seem to me that before you supply a stocking dealer with holsters you take care of your retail orders.

 

[RobbW]

This really gets my dander up. In the absence of information to the contrary, I thought I was the only victim of injustice. I had no idea there were so many others. I'm glad the truth is finally coming to light. Gary has been playing fast and loose with many of us.

I hold no ill will towards CCA. I communicated with a manager there, and he had no idea what was going on. He also expressed a willingness to go to bat for me, so to speak, which I politely declined. The responsibility for this mess is with Gary, not CCA. CCA also indicated they did not want more orders from Gary until he was caught up with previous commitments. CCA are good guys.

This thing stinks to high heaven. I'd be surprised if any dealer wants to be associated/tainted by Gary once a more complete picture emerges.

I'm not cancelling my order, though. I've waited 28 months and consider my time, not just my dollars, invested capital. I'm going to continue to wait for what I purchased in 2005.

If Gary for some reason cannot afford new leather/to continue, I'll frankly forgive him and think of the matter no more. If I receive the order, that's fine, too. Either way I'll report back here when a conclusion is reached. I hope we can all report back our conclusions. We're not getting the truth from Gary, but we can help each other by sharing what develops for us individually.

 

[slimjim]

Garrity Gunleather
I bought a Kahr P45 back in December and was looking for a high quality holster for it. It was going to be my summer carry gun and in deciding which holster maker to go with it, delivery time was a very important factor. I emailed Garrity back in Dec. 06 asking what his lead time was to which he responded 3-4 months. I subsequently placed an order on January 1st for an InCognito Deluxe and mag pouch. Mark responded very promptly to my emails at the time of ordering. After 4 months of waiting , I emailed Mark for an update. He explained he had a problem specifically with the P45 dummy gun, as it was out of specs, thereby delaying my order. No problem, I then changed the order to a different gun. I emailed Mark a few weeks ago looking for an update without response, knowing that I am coming up on the 1 year mark. Seems as though Mark has cut off communication with his customers in recent months. I have also observed others receive their orders after I placed mine. I've pretty much given up on expecting a holster delivery from Garrity. Another year wasted waiting on a holster order.

This is a quote from Mark on April 16th regarding his new turn-around time quote policy:

I have implemented a new policy on quoting turn-around times. That being - on any future orders I will no longer give an anticipated delivery date. You may have your order in 2 weeks, 2 months; or 11 months,2 weeks, and 2 days. My only promise is you will have it within a year of ordering.

I know there are plenty of people who have not received their orders within the 1 year promised. I'm betting I will also fall in that category.

 

[sass20485]

Ranger Gun Leather. I bought & PAID for a holster in October 2006, he has my money... I NEVER got anything in return! NO holster, NO refund, NO reply. Even the Better Business Bureau got nowhere on this for me. I'd avoid doing business with this guy, Greg Dunn of Ranger Gun Leather.

Brommeland, when Gary got backed up due to unforeseen and unavoidable issues, I waited patiently, I too heard my order was on the bench, would be shipped soon,etc, but when it got to be over 6 months past due and still no holster, I asked for and received a PROMPT refund.

 

[TheHun]

Brommeland Service Grade

Somebody correct me if I am wrong. I remember a thread in the past about his new service grade holster...faster delivery etc.

Service grade is a relatively recent addition to the line of his holsters. He has been supplying his dealer with this line of holsters, while other orders what were placed well before the new generation holsters were even introduced, just simply getting ignored.

 

[Dan'l Boone]

Brommeland

Order placed Jan 2007 - Looks like I may have more wait time in front than behind me.

 

[Bumper]

It seems there are a lot of problems with makers not delivering goods when promised.

That is a point that needs to be clarified, actually. While there are a few holster makers that are having problems, most are not. We don't want to paint custom holster makers with a broad brush for those of you that may avoid ordering from a custom holster maker because some of the problems discussed here. You shouldn't. While demand is high and reasonable wait times are common, all of the custom holster makers we have sponsoring this site have delivered orders as promised and have kept the communication lines open with their customers. I have also updated my original post with this information.

 

[raevan]

The Craftsman trap. Taking money up front to pay for materials usually leads them to be taking orders to pay for materials to fulfill previous orders, If one gets faulty supplies then they just fall farther behind. So some makers have to make 'Bread and Butter pieces that sell quickly to pay for the materials to make the higher dollar pieces. This was real present in the custom knife world for awhile, still is to some extent. If an emergency comes up such as worn out equip or health problems it can totally blow thing to pieces. I stopped taking orders for knives to catch up, I lost customers. I filled all my orders I had left and have not taken any orders since. I make a few knives now and then and sell them after they are complete. I take no money up front and design the knives how I want. I have a lot of broken equip and no money to replace it.

I now have less stress because I finally admitted that I am an artist not a buisnessman. I make a few pieces and sell them if I can but don't take orders.

I am sure that the makers that are having problems will eventually catch up or get a good person to run their buisness so they can concentrate on their art.

A word to the wise, some products are easier to make then others, so when one gets behind on orders it is less stressfull to work on the easy ones first and get them out. This is a trap, Makers really need to set prioritys and stick to them.

I offer this as a failed buisnessman. There are really no good excuses because they are just that, excuses as to why the buisness is flopping. I had to face facts that I was overextended and had to deal with it.

 

[Ti Carry]

----- Original Message -----
From: garritysgunleather@cox.
To: "Gxxxx Nxxxx" <gxxxxx@xxxx.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: In-Cognito order!


Got it!
Thanks,
Mark

Above is my original order to Garrity, actually his reply back letting me know he got it after I emailed and had to ask him for a response to make sure he did get it after 2-3 day's went by.

This is a quote from Mark on April 16th regarding his new turn-around time quote policy:

I have implemented a new policy on quoting turn-around times. That being - on any future orders I will no longer give an anticipated delivery date. You may have your order in 2 weeks, 2 months; or 11 months,2 weeks, and 2 days. My only promise is you will have it within a year of ordering.

Also, above, in the quote, what slimjim wrote in his post as to what Mark's new policy is, I didn't even know about until his posting it here.

So, officially Oct, 19th 2006 was the actual order date. More than 14 months of waiting. So I guess that blows the 1 year therory out the window. I'd still be waiting if I didn't fire him as my holster maker (without a response either) after completely ignoring the fact he has customers with holster orders that want there stuff. I am just so sick of wasting 12-24 months with nothing to show for it.

ETA:
I also agree with Bumper, there are many makers on this site and off this site that do deliver at or very near there quoted delivery times and do it well. These are the makers that have earned my business. There is only a select few that have earned there reputations that are being discussed in this thread. You can only buffalo your customers with excuses that don't add up for so long before it start's catching up with you and the customer loses all respect and goes elsewhere for there holster needs.


Ti

 

[rodc13]

Brommeland Order Chronology

7/11/2006
Placed order for Max Con V & single mag pouch.
Quoted delivery time: 20 weeks.

7/14/2006
Added extra belt loop set to order.

10/19/2006
Sent email to check on delivery since hearing Gary's back had gone out. Remy replied that they would be on schedule for my order delivery around the end of November/beginning of December.

12/14/2006
Remy responded to my email, said they were now running 6-8 weeks.

1/28/2007
Remy responded that my order would be on Gary's bench in about 4 weeks, but if I needed it before then, to let them know.

3/14/2007
Remy responded that it would be about 3 weeks for my order, or I could downgrade it to service grade and get it it about a week and a half. I replied that I'd wait the extra 1-1/2 weeks for the presentation grade model I ordered.

4/20/2007
Remy responded that she screwed up on the 3 week delivery time and that Gary was finishing up a batch of belts, but would have my order in the very next batch of work, and that she would notify me when it was on the way.

6/26/2007
After 3 emails, Remy finally responds. Tells me that "Gary is working on your order right now," and that she'd contact me in 7-10 days to let me know it's on the way.

10/19/2007
I send Gary a PM via DefensiveCarry.com, since I'm told he would answer that, whereas he wouldn't answer an email.

10/27/2007
Gary responds that he should have my order out in a couple of weeks.

11/27/2007
Gary sends a PM via DefensiveCarry.com that my order will ship that week, unless I'd rather have a refund. I respond that no, I'd like to receive the products I ordered.

It's now 12/26/2007.

 

[RobbW]

Where is the integrity? This whole thing is like a con game. Each of us got told the same lies when there was no intention or even a way possible to follow through. And all the time he was taking new orders, making new promises, and starting new businesses.

I could have had CONSECUTIVE orders filled from Matt Delfatti and Josh Bulman.

Original order: September 12, 2005.

 

[windowman2]

Sad it has come to this point.

I've tried to stay on the sidelines of this and see how it plays out. I too have an order in with Gary. Max Con, service grade ordered July/August 06. Card charged on 8/2/06. I had a holster from Gary that I was more than impressed with and I still believe his work is second to none. However, the old saying "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" Well, it is obvious that Gary has been fooling many people, probably himself too, for a long time. That's sad for everyone involved.

As consumers, we make decisions everyday as to where we spend our money. My hope is that I can get a quality product, fairly priced and be able to deal with people I can trust. Gary has produced a quality product that has been fairly priced but has lost my trust. He has been on this site as recently as today and has chosen not to reply in any manner.
All I can do is cancel my order and when my refund comes, place a new order with someone that has an established track record of quality, pricing and trust.

I truly hope and pray that Gary can get this situation fixed. When he does, I will be first in line to place an order.

 

[tabsr]

Bulman

Please do not mention Bulman name until my holster arrives. I do not want to encourage a possible longer order list and delay my order.

Suggest keeping your favorite holter maker secret.

 

[TheHun]

Hats off for Eric Larsen who comes forward and chimes in that other thread.

I wish Gary Brommeland would do that too. I guess we just don't worth it...it's just only a few hundred guys anyways.
It seems like at this point he only cares to fill orders with CCA and his costumers are long forgotten-ignored.

 

[cdwolf]

Eric's holsters are nice. Gary's backed up and he offers 2 styles 1 color.huh

 

[Dan'l Boone]

This is really enlightening, I posted to a recent thread where a fella had received his Brommeland holster, I asked if he got it from Gary or from CCA, it was from the latter.
In that post I also complained about folks getting their product pretty fast from CCA where my eleven month old order was apparently no where near ready.


I received several PM's from folks in the same boat.

Gary - If you are reading this, I do not want to cancel my order.

 

[RobbW]

I have contacted Gary by email/PMs no more than 4-6 times per year. My letters have not been hot headed, nor asking for more than what I already paid for. One of the moderaters here who was privy to them may or may not care to chime in here as to the content of my messages. Some of them were even set up in a private area on this forum. I just sent Gary the following message:

Gary,

I'm writing to ask that you please fill my order. I ordered from you, and you took my money, on September 12, 2005. You gave me a partial order and a promise of 2 extra belts after nearly a 2 year wait. Not good enough. Nobody has waited longer than me. I gave you my money the day you opened your TN shop. Please, no more false representations. All I want is my order. Please add integrity to your process by filling the orders in the order they were received/paid for.

RobbW

Here is Gary's reply:

Robb,
I am cancelling the remained of your order. A refund check will be forthcoming yet this week. I told you before to get off my ass - I meant it.

"get off my ass"? After 2 years, 4 months? Are you kidding?? Apparently to Gary "get off my ass" means not to request an old, paid for holster order in the order in which it was taken by him.

I will post back when I receive his check/letter and then consider the matter closed. Too bad I wasted so much time waiting on vaporware. Shame on me I guess, when the warning signs were there.

 

[gunthorp]

Kudos to Mark at Crossbreed. The Super Tuck Deluxe is the most comfortable IWB, very nicely priced, with great waranty service, and delivers on time in short order.

 

[jgrider]

2 years, 18 months, 14 months wait! This is just two pieces of leather sewn together. I remember when you could get a full house custom 1911 in 18 - 24 months. And that was with most of the fitting and checkering done by hand. Now it takes years and that's with cnc machining.

Holsters are something that we are going to wear unseen. No one is going to notice the boning or the color or the exotic trim. I have Bianchi, Don Hume, Ted Blocker concealment holsters that I've used for 20 years and they still look and work fine. My most recent purchase was a Don Hume JIT holster that cost me $25.00, new, and no wait. It looks just as good as the Bruce Nelson design that some makers are selling for 85+ dollars plus the wait.

They are taking in more work than they can handle and some of the money they are collecting in advance is used to buy material for the previous order and the rest is sitting in a bank making interest.They are turning a profit, and with the amount of work they claim to have, I'm guessing it's a nice profit. Plus the interest made from advanced money. I don't see them taking any of their profits to invest in the materials. It always the next buyer's money. If they go under the buyer looses, not the seller.

I don't think it's fair that the holster makers should get full payment in advance. I think they should only get a deposit, and the rest on delivery. With the amount of orders they claim to have it shouldn't be a problem for them to sell the holster being made, if the original buyer changes his or her mind, and also the maker still gets to keep the deposit. I believe it's poor business ethics for them as one man shops to take in more work than what they can do in a reasonable time.

And I think the big slap in the face is these guys come to sites like this wanting to be buddies and then crying on our shoulder and giving excuses of why they're behind. After reading these post I wonder how some can sugar coat the behavior of these people, you're being screwed over.

After all that being said,, I do have a Josh Bulman iwb, PDL holster, and a Sparks Watch Six. The Bulman is a great looking piece but who's going to see it? No one I hope. And for an iwb holster, do you need all that boning? It took four months to get it. That was about 2 1/2years ago. For the Sparks holster I paid scalper's prices.

Would I do again? I don't think so. The Bulman design isn't something new. I can get the same design cheaper and faster maybe not with the same attention to detail, but just as comfortable. Who needs detail and boning on an iwb holster. The Sparks Watch Six, what's there to say, it's just two pieces of leather sewn together, and for me, it wasn't worth the wait.

I've satisfied my ego, I won't do it again,

Demand your money back now. Tell them to notify you when they are ready to start on your holster and then send them only a deposit.

Is anyone here so scared to loose their place in line, or scared to ruffle their feather because they worry that they won't get a good holster. What the heck you may get it done sooner if you reshuffle the deck.

I've said my piece, now you all can gang up on me, but please no kicks to the head, John