Shouldn't need to be a law, but I think it's a great clarification to the 'system'.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^YEP^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Whatever happened to a stake-out, ya know, good ole fashioned police work, follow them{the thug they wanna bust} around and grab them undercover walking into the gym or the local diner.

With some jurisdictions it almost seems they enjoy the swat mentality for something that should be part of the mundane.

 

It's a real shame that a law like this ever had to be considered. IMHO, the unchecked proliferation of 'no-knock' raids (now at 70,000 to 80,000 annually) only contributes to passage of laws like this. LE should virtually NEVER be breaking into someone's house IMHO, unless the perp is a murderer or full-blown terrorist or something deadly serious is going on in the residence.

-

 

Yes, it should never have come to this. On the other hand, a law-abiding citizen has the right to defend against unlawful actions of others, whether under color of law or not. This is a direct result of the abuse of authority and carelessness of LE and courts. It's Law Enforcement, not a military action. These days it's getting hard to tell the difference.

 

It really just shows that LEOs are abusing their Immunity which needs to be controlled with consequences. I personally believe there would be allot less problems if LEOs that cross the line were actually liable for the damages they cause. This would restore the trust that has been lost if they actually were held accountable for their actions.

 

LEO breaks into your Home w/o warrant - Now you can shoot them!

You can also be history, but I think a home invasion deserves a response and quickly...you don't have time to ask for credentials...you do what you gotta do. Simply put....you likely won't survive a meet with the task force breaking down your door by mistake.......you're outnumbered at this point. Thing is....if you did survive and happened to kill a cop in the process of mistaken identity and warrant.......you shouldn't be held responsible or criminally charged with anything even if you happened to kill upon invasion which wasn't justified. Listen........everyone makes mistakes.....the day you're mistakenly shot and killed is the day you cease to exist. Every law abiding citizen needs to do their best when it comes time to do so......and I'll tell you that those days are getting closer by the minute since most of the powers that be pretty much look at all of us a criminals whether we've broken the law or not. That's your today reality. Many good folks have died at the hands of law enforcement doing their job.

Why is it we even need to worry about law enforcement killing us these days just the same as we do criminals? The system aint what it used to be. The 'system' works for others now and not you. You have to work for yourself AND support those who don't! LOL!

 

You can also be history, but I think a home invasion deserves a response and quickly...you don't have time to ask for credentials...you do what you gotta do. Simply put....you likely won't survive a meet with the task force breaking down your door by mistake.......you're outnumbered at this point. Thing is....if you did survive and happened to kill a cop in the process of mistaken identity and warrant.......you shouldn't be held responsible or criminally charged with anything even if you happened to kill upon invasion which wasn't justified. Listen........everyone makes mistakes.....the day you're mistakenly shot and killed is the day you cease to exist. Every law abiding citizen needs to do their best when it comes time to do so......and I'll tell you that those days are getting closer by the minute since most of the powers that be pretty much look at all of us a criminals whether we've broken the law or not. That's your today reality.

This is why all involved with a unwarranted Home Invasion should be charged with MURDER & prosecuted just as any other Home Invasion would be. I bet they wouldn't make so many mistakes, wrong addresses etc if they knew there could be consequences besides paid vacation while being reviewed, Just Say-in.

As for task forces etc many criminals dress like LEOs to get advantage I have cameras so I wouldn't be a sitting duck even against a task force although they still might murder me. Luckily I live in a smaller community & our LEOs haven't made this type of mistake & I really doubt they will. I feel very lucky to have a good local police dept.

 

I see this also as a result of over zealous LE's But I think it is like any other group. Some go to far in their professions and the need for this kind of law because of only a few abuse the system now.

I dislike it but do see a need for it as our liberties keep getting infringed upon but big brother and the "need" to know all...

 

“It’s just a recipe for disaster,” Downs told Bloomberg. “It just puts a bounty on our heads.”

You all better make sure you have the right home and announce you are there serving a warrant

 

This will not end well. Police are very well armed and have body armor. Not to even bring up the fact that there is more than one of them. The homeowner is at a losing battle..... well I guess the police is as well.

 

And this is why No knock warrants shouldn't be used accept in 100% known extreme cases because they have been abused same as property seizures aka Policing for profit is currently. I stand by my original response when Unwarranted Home Invasions (this is a key statement) happen & innocent people are killed what ever the excuse the murder/s should be prosecuted by Jury Trial. No law abiding citizen should have to worry about being assaulted or worse by the good guys while watching TV or sleeping in their home.

 

Living in the land of the free and home of the brave is getting scarier every minute.

 

LEOs break in because they think there is a BG there. You draw your gun and shoot. What do you think THEY are going to do? NOT fire back? That happened a few years ago to a woman. LEOs no knock warrant. She thought they were BG and drew her weapon (they had the wrong address). They shot and killed her. So what good would that "law" had done her? A apology card and some money for her survivors? This law means very little in the scheme of things.

 

SORRY our mistake wouldn't get it & there is no good excuse in that scenario. All LEOs involved are Outright MURDERS period & should be treated as such but would they NO. This type of scenario also why the mistrust is growing against LEOs.

 

BOY OHH BOY!!!

Why do people always preface cop bashing or end a cop bashing rant with "THERE ARE GOOD ONES" or "NOT THE GOOD COPS" People tend to more remember the negative experiences they have with any group... Including police. I am probably one of the most strident, and vocal opponentsto the militerization of the police, and police abuses. But these are the exceptions not the rule. Most police officers are honest, and want to adhere to the rules. Most of what people complain about the police is more politics. Judges are elected... Only a judge can issue a no knock provision into a warrant. All that hut hut hut crap wearing a cross between military, terrorist, and ninja clothing and weapons is nothing more than a show. An attempt tp project an image of intimidation. Fery few street cops use it or buy into it. But local politicians use it to show that they are tough on crime.

As I said in another post. I spent the greater part of my adult life working as a police officer. During the course of my career I have served hundreds of warrants. I could count on one hand the number of no knock endorsements I've gotten. Someone mentioned old fashion police work. Well IMO thats the answer. Not dressing up like dog the bounty hunter. Really bad guys are not at all impressed with that foolishness. But chicks dig it...

The police are like everyone else human. They are going to make mistakes. They may even serve on the wrong address... it can happen. This law allowes for the people in the wrong address to engage the police with deadly force? This my friends is a recepe for a disaster. I'd like a link where I can read the law word for word.

 

No this LAW will protect you against being charged/convicted with Attempted/Murder of a LEO even when they make a mistake as it so fondly is called when they enter the wrong address & injure or Murder innocent victims. The law isn't the recipe for disaster, really the No-Knock Warrant is the recipe for disaster. Everyone always says you can't win or survive against an illegal armed assault but we all know this isn't a cut & dry answer in the real world.

 

This law doesn't mean squat. As a homeowner I am still faced with "is it a LEO mistake or a band of BG". If I KNOW it is LEO....I put up my hands and hope they don't shoot my Basset Hound, but how can I be sure? I feel very safe from this in my community because it is tight and the LEOs know us. But stuff happens. A address mistake with the Highway patrol who doesn't know us. Can happen. If I shoot a LEO when I am in my home and not knowing it is LEO and knowing I am not a wanted criminal...I believe that is dependable in a court of law (if I live that long). Intent is the key. I didn't intend to kill a LEO, I thought I was being invaded by criminals. This to me is a nightmare I hope I never see.

 

This is a law that you don't even want to consider using. However if you do consider using it if the occasion arises you might want to do the following now:

1. Buy a nice ($$$$) life insurance policy on yourself for someone you like

2. Pre-pay for your funeral

3. Update/make will

4. Let everyone know that you will be crazy enough to shoot at law enforcement in such a situation

 

This is a law that you don't even want to consider using. However if you do consider using it if the occasion arises you might want to do the following now:

1. Buy a nice ($$$$) life insurance policy on yourself for someone you like

2. Pre-pay for your funeral

3. Update/make will

4. Let everyone know that you will be crazy enough to shoot at law enforcement in such a situation

I for one would not shoot it out with police as I am an honest citizen and have given the police no reason to invade my home. I might however shoot it out with someone breaking in as I would assume that they were bad guys who wished to do me harm.
I would rule out that the people breaking in were police because they have no reason to make a forced entry to my home.

If through no fault of my own the police did break in because of a mistake on their part and lives were lost because of my belief that they were bad guys should I be charged? This seems to be what the law addresses. If its an illegal entry should it matter who is doing it?

If I am breaking a law then I agree that I should not be able to use self defense or castle law to justify harming police.
If on the other hand if I am not breaking any laws I should not have to give up my right to self defense when being attacked regardless of who the person attacking works for. I should not be charges with a crime for defending myself when I have done nothing to invite the attack.

Michael

 

I'm still trying to figure out how your supposed to tell if it an illegal entry or not! Do you ask for a warrent before you draw and fire? I don't think I would take a chance on firing on a bunch of police in uniform breaking down my door because I figure it's an illegal entry. If they are coming through the door armed I am going to comply with their commands. If they have the wrong house we can sort it out once their guns are no longer trained on me.

 

I look forward to reading about the 'man the barricades against the jack booted thugs' guys in the morning news.

 

Once again... Not very often, but the police do make mistakes. Sometimes fatal ones. I had this same conversation with a few friends... Another retired cop put it this way. Do people run red lights on purpose? No they dont... sometimes they make a mistake. Could running a red light cause injury and loss of life? Of course! When a person get's caught running a red light do they want forgiveness?. Most do. Will they accept some constructive discretion on the part of the cop? I think anyone would. Why then are the police not afforded the same considerations? Is a person any less dead in a red light traffic accident than the person involved with a no knock gone wrong? Was either more preventable? What happens more often and is a bigger problem?

I'm not justifying any mistaken wrong doing by the police... I'm just saying that the police are human and will make mistakes like anyone else. I'm saying the remdies for running a red light is in the courts as the remedy for police mistakes is in the courts. Not shooting it out with the police.

 

Same consideration, seriously, are you for real? IT IS MY HOME. MY HOME. You have no rights in my home. No right to be there. No right to search it. No right to kick in my door unannounced. MY HOME. Police have to be held to a higher standard because they are entrusted with so much power. Consideration does not enter into it, and the comparision is crap. On the one hand the civilian made a mistake. On the other hand the paid professional made a huge mistake. Running a red light in no way is justification for breaking into the wrong house.

 

While I certainly agree there should be legal protections for homeowners who are unlucky enough to be on a receiving end of a misplaced no-knock "invasion", I doubt it would often play out in favor of the homeowner... that's just how things are.

I live in a town where the CCW rate is now somewhere around 25% of the adult residents. The local LE is very supportive of 2A Rights and would certainly expect a significant percentage of residents to be armed in one way or another... hopefully exercising appropriate precautions should they need to kick in a door or two (for legitimate reasons of course).

Should they find the need to pay an unannounced visit to my home it would probably not be a complete surprise as they would first encounter the photo-electric / magnetic mass sensors at the far end of the driveway, motion sensing lights and cameras covering the driveway and house entry points, pressure pads under the porch flooring, steel doors/frames and the flock of ducks that quacks up a storm when anyone enters "their" yard
I've tried to sneak up on the house without tripping any alerts and even knowing where everything is I cannot. (and no, we're not really paranoid, we just value our privacy )

 

Hypocritical mantra: 'I am all about protecting my family, so I'm gonna get into a shootout with known police and get them all killed. Because I'm all about protecting my family.'

Even liberals don't have that bizarre a thought process...

 

I hope it never happens to me because I have my .40 cal right beside me on the nightstand. They had better yell...COP...really loud and that may not be enough to cease aggression on my part.

 

Y'mean like these guys? http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum...news-good-bad-ugly/143288-st-petersburg-home-invasion-police-police-police.html

 

Well once again this topic has morphed into one big "they better not come into my house" thread.

You cannot combine the the topics.
First officers serving a legal search warrant, issued by a judge, on the right house, be it yours or your neighbors, have every legal right to be there plain and simple. If you are the subject of an investigation leading to a search warrant YOUR HOME can and will be searched and evidence of a crime will be gathered as long as it is done within the scope of the law and you standing up yelling you can't be in MY HOUSE will not amount to a hill of beans.

Just like standing on the side of the road argueing with the officer about a ticket is not the place and time neither is it the place and time to argue the legalities of a search warrant while they are standing in your living room.

The second part of this debate is a totally different subject. Should officers make a mistake and hit the wrong house then yes they should be liable for their mistake and anything that happens but it is still a mistake but there is a big difference between the two and you cannot combine them.

Laws like this have there pros and cons and I would hate to be the first one to be the test case. Many folks quote the stand your ground laws as protecting them from prosecution in their states in regards to a crime being committed against them but as we have seen these cases are no longer cut and dried they are being picked apart and any flaw is being jumped on.

You will be damned either way the situation works out.

 

This is where we part company so to speak. A person has the right to be secure in their person, their travel, and their home. Warrants should not be given out just because you as an officer want one. Warrants should not be given out to gather evidence of a crime. If the officer does not know a crime has happened, they should not be allowed into a home to look for evidence of a crime. The system is badly broken, including the use of no knock warrants.

By the way, my home comments were directed at getting the wrong addresses.

 

You will be damned either way the situation works out.

And probably dead too.

 

If you know they are cops, you'd have to go for head shots. They'll be wearing vests.

If you dont know they're cops and go for COM....you've lost the advantage and given them more time and reason to focus on you.

If you know they are cops...would you still shoot?

So....shooting cops breaking into house....bad idea if you can avoid it.


For me, it wouldnt be any different from any other home invasion, my plan would remain the same...head for safe/bed room with cover, phones, ammo, guns. And with the same dilemma....will my dogs follow me instantly or go after the invaders? Likely not follow me....so their loss to either criminals or cops is very possible.

If cops shoot my dogs because of a mistaken address....there will be public Hell to pay.

 

There will always be bad guys posing as good guys whether it be a home invasion or some kind of scam to get your money, it is a simple fact of life because it works. The "good people" respect law and order or they still believe in the goodness of humanity while others are just plain greedy that is why these things work.

No Knock Warrants have been and always will be a "necessary evil" in the law enforcement world. There are standards by which the judical officer must abide by before he issues such a warrant and there are standards by which LE must abide by when applying for the warrant and then there is the middle ground that is real life and is actually what happens. You can't eliminate them because a group of BG's use this technique just as you can't stop selling alcohol because a drunk driver kills someone. LE has a difficult job to do and sometimes that job means kicking a door on no knock warrant.

As I stated before I don't want to be the test case for this new law and sure don't want to face a tactical team coming through the door.

 

This whole "no knock" is scary has hell. These days the BG's yell police when they are knocking on a door--am I suppose to just open the door because someone says "police"? It is like watching these COP shows where a group of legit cops with a warrant begin crashing in a door as they are yelling police how the heck am I suppose to know it is for real? They are in the house before anyone has even been shown any sort of warrant or papers. I understand the purpose when drugs can be flushed down the toilet but this method has some serious and deadly consequences. And what does our fearless king with no clothes have to say? Remember the (black) Harvard professor who objected to the legitimate concerns of a police officer who was called to the area? Our dear king said the "police acted stupidly". So much for knowing what you, as a law abiding citizen is suppose to do or accept in this asylum we call the US being run by its inmates.

 

Front page of the Tampa Tribune today a man was murdered in his own home when 4 men committed a home invasion yelling "Police" as they kicked in the door, robbed, then murdered him.

Being a law abiding citizen and carrying inside my own home 100% of the time, if someone busts through my door I will react in the manner in which I have trained. I certainly pray no one has the wrong address regardless of who they are. As me and the guys at work were discussing the story over lunch, I pity the fool that targets my home for forced entry while I am there.

 

CTR. SS pretty much covered what I would have said search warrants are not given out just for kicks or because the officer wants one. The pupose of a "Search Warrant" is to search for something related to a crime and as long as the proper procedures are followed for obtaining them are 100% legal. No Knock warrants are not used for every single warrant and do have a purpose in life whether everyone likes it or not.

Bugdude. As I stated earlier bad guys will use whatever means they can. Yes it is screwed up that they imitate LE and gain entry. Yes it is screwed up someone imitates a cop on a traffic stop and rapes or murders somone but do we eliminate all warrants and traffic stops because of it? Not hardly. No one is argueing the fact that you do not have the right to defend yourself in your own home what is being said you would probably lose either way, either legally or by drawing on a legit tactical team coming through the door.

Rmember to guys this law, or what I got from the article, was this action is justified when the "public servant" is illegally in your home you can use force. The service of a legit search warrant or simply answering a call for service would not fit under the new law.

 

You're right, it is a no win situation regardless of the circumstances. Either they put you down in your own home or you go down in court. Hindsight is always 20/20 and a DA will alanyze and criticize whatever you did after the fact. Unfortunately, BG count on this reality and choose to imitate counting on your hesitation. So, if it really is the police, you lose one way or the other. If it is BG imitating police and you hesitate, you lose. Pretty crappy situation for the honest joe sitting at home legally minding his own business.