[JD]

opcorn:

Wow....


OK.
1: The M1910 did not have a thumb safety, the M1911 as patented DID have a thumb safety this the M1911 was designed to have a thumb safety. The reason the thumb safety was added was to give the troops a safe way to carry the firearm until it could be returned to condition 3, this later changed to that the M1911 should be carried condition 1 when "expecting trouble" and is now "the norm" for LE duty and civilian carry. The military carries condition 3 when in garrison, but goes hot during operations etc.

2: Most instruction manuals tell you not to carry a loaded gun. This varies from model to model, but a majority of them do not touch on modes of carry, if you'd like I can provide several examples later, on a different machine at the moment. So following the instruction manual may not be a good idea unless we want the OP carrying condition 4 with the gun in a locked container...:idea:

3: There are a variety of SAO semi automatics, not just the the 1911, think Mustang, Hi Power, Sig 238, 220 SAO etc.

4: Most of the above guns will not allow you to either: A: engage the safety with the hammer down (1911) or thumb cock the hammer with the safety on (Colt Mustang/Sig 238), I don't think I've ever tried it on my Hi Power, maybe I'll play with that tonight.

5: Getting back to the actual question and away from pulling each others' puds....

I carry all my SAO automatics that are equipped with thumb safeties in a cocked and locked fashion. It's the easiest and safest to deploy. Lowering the hammer on a live round is bad juju as you are required to disengage the firing pin safety (if equipped) to pull the trigger to lower the hammer, if you slip you're in for a big loud surprise. Even if you did lower the hammer safely in order to thumb cock the gun you need to compromise your grip by rolling the thumb over to the hammer.

I don't know about anyone else but when I mimic a gun with my hand and roll my thumb over, my index finger rolls down as well right about to where the trigger would be...under stress that would be another way to induce a negligent discharge.

Carrying it cocked with thumb safety off may not be "that bad" :gah: as there is still the grip safety to contend with, I would not advocate that method. The other types of SAO autos I mentioned do hot have the grip safety so I definitely would not advocate carrying those with the thumb safety off either.

Back to the 1911 and thumb cocking, if I were to carry in such a manner, I would only do so with a wide GI style hammer, the "Commander hammers" just don't have enough surface area IMHO for thumb cocking.


So again, I carry my Mustangs, Sig 238, Hi Power, 1911s all condition 1. When I carried a Sig 220 SAO, it was condition 1. When I carry my XDM and P7 (single action, striker fired) I carry them with one in the chamber and grip safeties active.


I'm not ever going to comment on condition 3 in this thread, it's bad enough as it is...:essen14:

 

[mschun]

I don't own a SAO, but cocked and locked with no grip safety would, personally, make me nervous. Some manual safeties are easily disengaged. I'd never carry my DA/SA CZ-82 cocked as the SA trigger is light and short, and if the safety were accidently bumped off, it's ready to go.

But to each their own, and if they feel comfortable cocked and locked with any make, they should do so.

So Glocks make you nervous? You would carry it cocked but no safety but your finger. My friend bought a Glock, his first one and told me that he was not familiar with it and when he holstered, shot his pillow my first carry was a Glock 21 so I asked him if he read the owners manual, no, of course not. You are as comfortable as you practice to be. If you are nervous about the trigger pull you can get a6 lbNY trigger for the Glocks, or a 4.5 for a 1911 feel, like you said if you feel comfy go ahead, like the officers at the range say, "I am cocked and locked, you will have to chamber who would win?

 

[Xader]

So Glocks make you nervous? You would carry it cocked but no safety but your finger. My friend bought a Glock, his first one and told me that he was not familiar with it and when he holstered, shot his pillow my first carry was a Glock 21 so I asked him if he read the owners manual, no, of course not. You are as comfortable as you practice to be. If you are nervous about the trigger pull you can get a6 lbNY trigger for the Glocks, or a 4.5 for a 1911 feel, like you said if you feel comfy go ahead, like the officers at the range say, "I am cocked and locked, you will have to chamber who would win?

Glocks are irrelevant to the conversation. They are DAO and have no safety. This thread is about SAO w/manual safety.

 

[rljohns]

Cocked and locked. Even if you knock the safety off while in the holster by getting in/out fo car, etc you still have the trigger covered and if its a 1911 you have the grip safety and you won't shoot your horse by AD. The DA/SA that was mentioned earlier (i.e Sig P229) has the strong pull DA with all other pulls SA. It was designed to carry one chambered and hammer down (never SA mode - hammer cocked). The P229 doesn't have an external safety and frankly doesn't need one. It would be similar to carrying a revolved with all chambers loaded and not cocked. The P229 and such are designed to be "drop safe". An original 1911 was not designed to be "drop safe" with hammer down on a live chambered round.

 

[OldVet]

So Glocks make you nervous? You would carry it cocked but no safety but your finger. My friend bought a Glock, his first one and told me that he was not familiar with it and when he holstered, shot his pillow my first carry was a Glock 21 so I asked him if he read the owners manual, no, of course not. You are as comfortable as you practice to be. If you are nervous about the trigger pull you can get a6 lbNY trigger for the Glocks, or a 4.5 for a 1911 feel, like you said if you feel comfy go ahead, like the officers at the range say, "I am cocked and locked, you will have to chamber who would win?

Seems you read what you wanted to see, not what I wrote.

Like Xader pointed out, don't mix apples and oranges here. I didn't mention anything about being chambered or not. I specifically expressed my concern about cocked and locked without a grip safety.

A Glock is not "cocked and locked" per say as the striker is fully cocked when the trigger is pulled. I'm sure you'll admit that a cocked SA trigger, in any decent gun, is lighter than the Glock's trigger, which is more a DA than a SA. I know my CZ-82's certainly is. And I've found that nudging the safety off is possible (seatbelts, etc.) and that's what make me nervous about a manual safety and no grip safety.

While the Glock's "safe-action" trigger is easily defeatable, its 5-5.5 lb pull is more than my CZ's or 4566's trigger in SA . I don't think I'd care to carry my CZ or 4566 cocked and locked, prefering to rely on its firmer DA pull to avoid an inadvertant discharge.

If you prefer to carry cocked and locked, then by all means do so. Me? Like I said, I would not be comfortable without the addition of a grip safety.

 

[shooterX]

I think JD said it best....and now that I have joined the ranks of 1911 style pistola carriers, I carry cocked and locked, why would you do anything eslse?